WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.360 And we're going to start with table five. 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:08.640 Middle Ages and historical fiction, in which we 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.640 will listen to four speakers in order. 00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:16.280 First will be Miriam López Santos, who is a professor of Didactics and Literature 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.280 at the University of León, where she earned her doctorate with a thesis on the 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:24.280 Spanish Gothic novel and is the author of various books, articles and critical 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:28.040 editions dedicated to aspects related to Gothic, fantasy and horror. 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.600 For example, the keys to the castle, interpretive keys to the gothic novel 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:36.600 in Peter Lang in 2020 and also highlights his work in front of the gothic 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:39.720 novel portal of the Miguel de Cervantes Virtual Library. 00:00:39.720 --> 00:00:44.120 And the title of his presentation is The Green Devil in the Black Forest. 00:00:44.360 --> 00:00:48.040 830 Continuity and transformation of the medieval imaginary. 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:50.880 So, Miriam, whenever you're ready. Go ahead. 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.120 That sounds perfect. 00:00:57.120 --> 00:01:00.400 Many thanks to the event organizers, 00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:03.400 Antonio, and Israel. 00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:04.400 No, it's not there. 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.400 Azucena doesn't tell me she's not here because I don't know her. 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:10.640 We haven't spoken. 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:12.880 Should we tell him, then? 00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:16.880 And Antonio was telling you, uh, these days, a few days ago 00:01:16.880 --> 00:01:21.600 and yesterday or today, or since it's been such a long day, right? 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.000 Didn't I know? Yes, if my intervention in the 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.320 historical novel cycle came in here, does it say so? Yes. 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.640 So, I'll just keep going. 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:35.520 Go ahead with it. Okay? 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:39.960 Well, I've titled it. 00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:42.960 Ah, okay, okay, perfect. 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.560 Hello, Israel. 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:51.840 Uh. And he titled his communication 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:57.080 The Green Devil in the Black Forest in 1930. Uh? 00:01:57.240 --> 00:02:01.200 Because it's one of those Spanish gothic 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.200 novels that I cataloged. 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:08.200 I went back to cataloging a few months ago, uh, to 00:02:08.200 --> 00:02:12.200 review the catalog, because of course, you know 00:02:12.200 --> 00:02:16.200 that new ones appear, new ones are discovered, 00:02:16.200 --> 00:02:20.800 not new ones, there are works that are already there. 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:24.800 Hmm. I finally found this novel that I had seen in 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.440 catalogs, but hadn't been able to get my hands on. 00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:31.200 I've managed to locate it, eh. 00:02:31.200 --> 00:02:34.520 Regardless of all the characterization 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.520 of the Spanish Gothic novel. 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.160 Uh, this is it. 00:02:40.160 --> 00:02:44.160 Hey, hey, I'll tell you the whole title: The Green Devil 00:02:44.160 --> 00:02:48.160 in the Black Forest, or Happy and Dorothea, A New, Instructive 00:02:48.160 --> 00:02:52.880 Novel, Published in 1830 by Ignacio Torre Soldevila. Right? 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:58.320 And practically unknown, especially in analysis. 00:02:58.320 --> 00:03:00.400 As I was saying, 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.400 Huh? It was, mmm 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.800 It is one of those Gothic novels, but the only one in 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:11.800 which, being of the irrational variety, it has a 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:15.800 figure that we can consider supernatural, which 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:21.600 in this case would be that devil that appears in the title in front of all the 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:25.040 eh, eh, 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:29.640 The Gothic novels of this movement, where the 00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:33.640 supernatural element is justified in the 00:03:33.640 --> 00:03:37.640 rational or is inserted more into the territory 00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:41.320 of horror, as happens with the other works. 00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:45.880 Well, uh, before getting into this more 00:03:45.880 --> 00:03:49.880 theoretical subject, uh, I did want to point 00:03:49.880 --> 00:03:53.880 out that, uh, the novel appeared for sale 00:03:53.880 --> 00:03:57.880 in Madrid, in the Munici Ana bookstore in 00:03:57.880 --> 00:04:01.880 1830 and it appears in several catalogs, 00:04:01.880 --> 00:04:05.880 hence I was on the trail because it appears 00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:09.880 cataloged in several works that were Gothic, 00:04:09.880 --> 00:04:14.200 clearly because they were translations. 00:04:14.200 --> 00:04:18.200 The historic underground tomb of the Duchess or Maria, 00:04:18.200 --> 00:04:22.200 or the abandoned girl, Luisa de Augusto, or The Cabin 00:04:22.200 --> 00:04:26.200 in the Valley, etc. Then it was indeed linked to that 00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:29.280 public, to those readers of the time who 00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:32.280 were looking for this other type of works. 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.560 Now, focusing on the plot, well, uh. 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:39.840 I was lost in catalogs. 00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:43.840 As I mentioned, and even in Ferreras it 00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:47.120 appears with the initials JT s, eh? 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.680 In others, in other catalogs, such as Anonymous. 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:54.920 And I've tried to find something by this author and 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:58.840 haven't found any other work, so it could be a pseudonym. 00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:03.880 I also tried to find out if it was a translation, but I couldn't find it, huh? 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.920 But no, that doesn't mean that new 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.160 data can't appear from now on. 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.480 In the end, it narrates the adventures and escapades of a young man 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.480 who, after the mysterious death of his father, finds himself involved 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:23.480 in a series of inexplicable events that will lead him to discover a 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.720 supernatural reality hidden in that gray area of ​​the black forest. 00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:32.360 There's an initial childhood story that you can imagine a 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.360 family tragedy that will encompass his life, huh? 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:39.880 His father is found dead on a slab under inexplicable circumstances. 00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:41.760 Signs of injury. Horror. 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:44.040 The affected mother dies a few days later. 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.040 A few months later, a typical argument. 00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:51.120 Later on, a shepherd boy finds Dorothea, huh? 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:54.080 Orphaned, destitute. And a relationship begins. 00:05:54.080 --> 00:05:57.480 After that marriage, a mysterious voice begins. 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.760 He warns them, eh, that their destiny will change drastically. 00:06:01.760 --> 00:06:05.760 And here begins the most interesting part of the escape, 00:06:05.760 --> 00:06:09.760 as they cross that black jungle and are guided by a 00:06:09.760 --> 00:06:14.400 grotesque-looking old man to a hidden, totally extravagant world. 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.920 Huh? Where they will witness scenes of terror 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.960 and violence that defy human reason. 00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:25.960 So there they discover a hellish realm that is 00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:29.080 dominated by, uh, this mmm green 00:06:29.080 --> 00:06:32.080 devil, which is a demonic entity, uh? 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:33.600 Disturbing. 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.680 And he's already commenting on the ending. 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.680 Well, I don't need to because I'm going to say it, 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.680 but the father didn't really die, but was condemned 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:48.680 to hell, etc., and then he grants them freedom. 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:52.680 That story, after all, is based on all the tropes 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:58.360 of Gothic, of classic Gothic: Heroes in danger, plots, eh, horror, eh? 00:06:59.520 --> 00:07:03.000 Family tragedies, a suffocating atmosphere, 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.000 a punishment that rewards, huh? 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.640 And all this structure that writes it al al, 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:14.160 to, to the genre, 00:07:14.320 --> 00:07:18.320 to the historical subgenre of the Gothic novel, 00:07:18.320 --> 00:07:22.320 because it presents that special element, different 00:07:22.320 --> 00:07:26.320 from that other Spanish tradition, which is the 00:07:26.320 --> 00:07:30.320 presence of that green devil in an environment 00:07:30.320 --> 00:07:34.720 marked by the suffocation caused by the natural space. 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.880 That's why I've brought you here, in this first instance, huh? 00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:42.200 Those eco-gothic anxieties, eh? 00:07:42.200 --> 00:07:45.600 It's described in a horror style, huh? 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.960 And like a prelude to hell, huh? 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:53.160 Dominated by that demonic character, huh? 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.160 The presence of the demon and its insertion into that 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:01.160 wild natural landscape I am describing, as well as 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.160 its antagonistic role in the plot or the description 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.520 of its properties, then demand an intertextual 00:08:08.520 --> 00:08:11.520 look at that medieval literature. 00:08:11.960 --> 00:08:15.960 Also because of the presence of that devil and how he's been 00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:19.960 described, seeking his literary roots and an eco-Gothic 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:24.520 vision in which the forest is presented as a constant threat. Huh? 00:08:26.200 --> 00:08:28.080 This mmm. 00:08:28.080 --> 00:08:31.880 I won't dwell on the characteristics of the devil, since you're medieval here. 00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:34.600 Much more expert, huh? 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.600 But the devil that appears to us in this, 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:43.480 in this, uh, in this space, is it a devil, uh? 00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:46.520 That it's marked by folklore, 00:08:46.520 --> 00:08:49.520 by superstition, huh? 00:08:49.520 --> 00:08:53.520 But it is also based on all the inquisitorial 00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:57.520 manuals, treatises on monologic matters, 00:08:57.520 --> 00:09:01.520 books of wonder, secrets, etc. that 00:09:01.520 --> 00:09:06.840 could speak of this character or this being. 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:10.440 But we're interested in this idea of ​​the devil in texts, in narrative texts, 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:12.240 right? 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:16.240 As a triggering element of fear responsible for 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:20.240 evil and human suffering, it obeys the postulates 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:25.720 demanded by Gothic writers and will determine its role in the plot. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.960 In fact, the devil in the novel draws from this medieval demon, 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.960 who had abandoned his status as a historical entity to become 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.960 another character present in the texts, which is partly formed, 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.960 as I say, from this collective imaginary, both religious, 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.040 philosophical, popular and folkloric, right? 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:51.840 Is there a coexistence, on the one hand, 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:55.840 from the majestic Satan, Dominus, lordly 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.520 dominus to the Dante Eiffel, eh? 00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:02.440 What is the mocking devil, huh? 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:07.520 Clumsy, etcetera, eh, the devil! 00:10:07.520 --> 00:10:10.520 So what do we find? 00:10:11.280 --> 00:10:13.960 Yes, uh 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.960 It manifests, uh, a series of tricks, 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.920 uh, deceptions and ploys and uh, their 00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:24.920 terrible consequences, uh? 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.960 As well as an ending that represents, which is the 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:32.840 novelty, especially if it's starring the devil of 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.840 virtue, the triumph of virtue. Right? 00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:39.880 Facing condemnation, huh? The abandonment 00:10:39.880 --> 00:10:43.880 to passions, which is also strange. Not 00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:47.880 so much if we understand it in the dynamics 00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:51.880 of 19th-century literature, but rather 00:10:51.880 --> 00:10:55.320 in the figure of the devil. 00:10:55.520 --> 00:10:59.520 Eh Feliz and Dorotea are haunted by the weight of the past. 00:10:59.520 --> 00:11:03.520 They venture into the woods near their cabin, guided by a 00:11:03.520 --> 00:11:07.520 trembling, muffled voice that confirms, as I told you before, 00:11:07.520 --> 00:11:11.520 your luck will soon change and an unforeseen incident will 00:11:11.520 --> 00:11:15.280 lead you to an unknown place where you will find the ultimate remedy for your 00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:17.160 ills. Eh? 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.120 Hey! There, eh, is where, eh. 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.120 Inviting them to climb a barely accessible crag as 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.120 proof of these claims, to watch in horror as their 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.080 house appears before their eyes engulfed in flames. 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:39.120 This is why the progress will begin. Right? 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:41.960 The progress of history, huh? 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:48.520 The mystery surrounding the whispering voice is 00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:52.520 linked to the plot, to the gothic motif of creation, 00:11:52.520 --> 00:11:56.520 of suspense, of the fascination with sinister terror, 00:11:56.520 --> 00:12:01.280 eh, but it is also enriched by the tradition of example, eh? 00:12:02.400 --> 00:12:06.400 In which this devil appears representing a series of 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:10.400 characters, the devil induces and induces sinful 00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:14.400 thoughts and desires to offer favors in exchange for the 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:17.400 soul or to control human or animal bodies, 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:20.400 tempting the hero so much that he ends up, eh? 00:12:20.680 --> 00:12:24.000 The holy hero ends up being defeated thanks to divine intervention. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.000 As we know from the exemplar that happens in the Green Devil, 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.320 the turning point is determined by that fire that 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.320 we just saw caused by the devil himself. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.760 We understand, right? 00:12:35.760 --> 00:12:39.760 Well, it's after this that all the events 00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:43.360 that are going to happen take place, huh? 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:47.040 Well, the protagonists will start making decisions. 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:51.080 Well, few, because they are influenced and influenced by the person who guides 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.040 them, eh? 00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:57.400 And it makes itself present through an old man who is 00:12:57.400 --> 00:13:01.400 going to move through, uh, that jungle on a stormy journey 00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:05.400 full of terrors, although it is not materialized or made 00:13:05.400 --> 00:13:09.400 explicit at any time, that he makes a pact with the demonic 00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:13.400 entity, we can assume that there is a breakdown of will, 00:13:13.400 --> 00:13:18.880 an abandonment to its dispositions in the hope of a final benefit. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:23.600 The devil transfigured into an old man as a folkloric 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.600 motif, eh allows him not only to give realism to the text 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.600 but also to offer a reliable, harmless figure that enables 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:35.280 him to access, through persuasion, his true ends. 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:38.240 And I quote again, you are already convinced of your misfortune. 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:42.240 If you want to find relief in it, 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.240 follow me. Then it is from, uh, from 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.240 that moment in which we find, uh, 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:55.680 this figure, uh, this, uh, the transit serves her. 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.080 We are witnessing a transition from a diabolical 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:04.080 preternatural entity to a fantastic supernatural 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:07.320 subject that occurs in this 19th-century 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.320 literature of the late 18th and early 19th centuries. 00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:15.560 Until, uh, mmm. 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.080 It appears explicitly or in characters that refer to 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.960 these entities with a demonic personality like those we already know. 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:29.320 As the century progresses, the 17th, 19th century, sorry, transgressive, 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.320 irreverent and rebellious characters appear throughout the journey 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.280 they undertake in a voyage that takes on almost initiatory overtones. 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.720 Eh, Felix and Dorotea find themselves immersed in a series of experiences 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.240 that expose them to a growing sense of threat and vulnerability. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.840 Hey, Mmm hey! The presence of the non-human, constantly recreated 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.840 throughout its journey, bursts forth with a disturbing intensity, 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:57.840 immediately awakening mechanisms of superstition that are 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.960 activated through a process of cultural mediation. 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.240 Through all these ideas we were discussing earlier, that 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.960 is, as they say, from a Gothic perspective, right? 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.120 For example, Parker points out that when we enter the forest, 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:17.120 uh, we don't have a fear of the forest, but what is activated 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.120 through a process of cultural mediation are our fears of 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.240 forests that we have read about throughout the entire EH. 00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:29.040 The history of literature is the idea we have of Del Bosque. 00:15:29.640 --> 00:15:32.880 We went down to the base and there was another one 00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:35.880 of the fragments and we learned more about it. 00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:38.960 A terrifying fear confused and stunned us. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.440 I don't know which of the two would be more enthusiastic. 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.240 Our hair stood on end at such a spectacle. 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.600 In this sense, what they are going to experience is 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.600 what Sybil has defined as the plant stalking. 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.600 That is, that space, uh, that natural 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.520 space that becomes an actor. 00:15:59.520 --> 00:16:03.520 He observes them, stalks them, dominates them, and, uh, the forest 00:16:03.520 --> 00:16:07.520 appears linked to that figure, it is configured as a space of limits, a 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:11.520 territory that oscillates between the bewitched, that which bewitches, 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:14.600 between what traps and what is capable of transforming. 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.120 And a scene of profound symbolic weight occurs in which 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.120 the characters succumb to an absolute loss of will. 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.120 Victims of that terror they do not understand. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:28.480 Does the unsettling reappearance of the old man after a period of 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:32.520 enigmatic absence reinforce this atmosphere of the supernatural? 00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:36.520 His return, however, is not in the 00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:40.240 form it had previously been 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.240 presented, but in the form of, uh, 00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:45.920 uh, of, uh, 00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:51.560 This new being appears as the famous green devil, huh? 00:16:51.800 --> 00:16:55.800 And I quote you, eh, in a very, eh, in a very diverse way 00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:59.800 and I quote: His outfit was no longer the same without a 00:16:59.800 --> 00:17:03.440 long green tunic tied with a ribbon of the same color, 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.440 with sandals and a tall hat, also green. 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.000 Was his face also green, very bright, and in his right hand 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.000 did he carry a trident of extraordinary size, eh? 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.640 So we see that a transformation has taken place, a transmutation, right? 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.720 The narrative reinforces the ambiguous and disturbing 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.720 nature of the demonic apparition, intensifying the 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.720 feeling that the protagonists have been dragged into a 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.720 wild space where the rules of reason and logic are suspended, 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.840 an absolute delight for the diabolical 00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:40.840 element, and thus abandoned to the irrational. 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.160 The text then takes on a totally gothic atmosphere, perfect for 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.160 exploring all these themes that gothic literature likes: traumas, 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:53.600 transgression of norms, insertion into the forbidden, and so on. 00:17:54.360 --> 00:17:58.360 Hey, the demon we discovered 00:17:58.360 --> 00:18:02.480 here is a medieval demon, huh? 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.160 Had, 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.680 Well, I had. 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.640 I don't know what happened between the two of them. 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:12.600 Hey? He is a medieval demon. Hey? 00:18:12.600 --> 00:18:13.120 That? 00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:16.120 Uh, yeah, what? Uh. 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:20.440 Can we do it in the studio? What's up, huh? 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:23.080 It appeared, eh. 00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:26.720 We have a conscious image of a dark demon. 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.880 Hey, hey, red. 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.600 Huh? Mmm. 00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:34.200 With tints that include a mix of red and black. 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.440 But this green devil we can find, uh, in the 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.440 beginnings in the Codex Riga, which is also known 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.440 as the Devil's Bible, which is the manuscript, 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.440 a 13th-century manuscript that contains an 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.440 illustration, uh, a whole face in which a green 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.360 devil appears, uh, with a green head, uh, big, 00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:01.360 red eyes and a threatening expression. 00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:05.120 And the image moves away from demonic representations. 00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:09.120 As I mentioned, it's more in dark reddish tones, which causes 00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:14.200 this perception of green to evoke the unknown, the supernatural, and evil. 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.440 And we could associate it with everything 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.480 la la eh 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:28.360 the assimilation of green with evil through, well, the arabesque. 00:19:28.800 --> 00:19:32.800 But if you look at it from a cinematic 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:36.800 perspective, every time poison or an evil 00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:42.480 character appears, it is often shown to us through the color green. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.000 I don't know if you're thinking about it. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000 Even if it's in Wicked right now, 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.000 or is it green, or is it the typical 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.000 scene when he's pouring a 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:01.960 poisonous potion that's green, huh? So, huh. 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.960 It is precisely this symbolic confluence of elements that determines 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:09.960 the classification of the work to the Gothic genre, and in it nature 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.960 is not the stage, as we mentioned, but an active agent that enhances 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.960 transgression, otherness, metaphysical unease, and where the 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.960 supernatural element is not limited to shaping the space, but 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:27.480 becomes the protagonist as the true one responsible for the succession of events. 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.600 From here on out, from when they experience all this, right? 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:35.240 Will they go through a series of tests, 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.240 as I was saying before, in which they 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.240 establish a relationship with their 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.040 own nature? As you can see in the 00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:50.040 fragment you have there. 00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:54.360 And once they pass this series of tests, they 00:20:54.360 --> 00:20:58.360 arrive at, the terror gives way to horror 00:20:58.360 --> 00:21:02.360 because the scenario of hell will be recreated, 00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:05.640 which will be the last of the stops. 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.400 Once they have crossed the entire forest, they have already suffered this series of 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.800 trials. 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:14.200 This space, this writing with remarkable plastic 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.200 richness, is built from the technique of excess, 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.200 which is also very typical of Gothic novels, in 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.200 which exaggeration and hyperbole appear and 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.920 function as constant mechanisms of sinister sublimity. 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:35.000 The narrative, far from being limited to a mere descriptive exposition, 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000 delves into the imaginary of the ominous, where each element that 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:43.000 appears reinforces the feeling of oppression and fatality. 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:43.600 It is chosen. 00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:47.600 The protagonist, as we know, has become a witness to that reality that 00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.600 defies the limits of his enlightened reason, and that is why he describes 00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:55.000 with horror everything he observes, trapped in a moral and existential 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.720 crossroads. 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.400 His speech, uh, is marked by uncertainty and unease, and 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:05.400 reveals a constant dialectic between fear and fascination, 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:09.400 while repeatedly questioning whether the decision to 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.400 follow the old man or the inescapable tacit pact that he has 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:17.280 dreamed he has come with him, has been the right choice. 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.880 Thus, the text refers to the tradition of those medieval versions of hell, where 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:25.880 the protagonist assumes the position of a pilgrim, condemned to contemplate 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:29.200 eternal punishments before returning to reality transformed by the revelation of 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:30.880 absolute horror. 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.120 Well, for example, some of the scenes, the noise of the 00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:38.120 chains that was there made us want to look over. 00:22:38.120 --> 00:22:38.600 How awful! 00:22:38.600 --> 00:22:42.320 Naked men dragging formidable chains, huh? 00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:46.320 One of those guarding those wretches was armed with his 00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:49.720 trident and dressed in the same suit as the others. 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.960 We passed through another large room where there was a group of men who 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.960 seemed to be made of marble, because they were not observed moving, etc., 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.960 etc. And a series of rooms followed. Hey, tell me until when because I 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:06.000 don't know if I've gone past that point, that's why I lost track of the time. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.000 Excuse me, we're starting now, huh? 00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:13.080 And I'm finishing up now, and it goes through a series 00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:17.080 of rooms and will reach the end where it tells them 00:23:17.080 --> 00:23:21.080 that they are the last ones to have arrived at this 00:23:21.080 --> 00:23:26.400 place, but that they are the first ones to leave it, and that's all. 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.400 In conclusion, the green devil is a symbol of the chaos 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.400 that emerges in the novel and embodies the philosophical 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.400 and spiritual tensions of the 19th century, a period 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.520 marked by the erosion of religious certainties 00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:44.520 and the irruption of secular thought. 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.000 Like all Gothic novels, it not only captures the anxieties 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.280 of its time, but also inaugurates a new way of representing evil. 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.880 Eh More than an agent of temptation, the ultimate administrator of a world 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.880 where justice has ceased to be a reflection of transcendental truth and 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:05.040 has become an unforgivable mechanism of domination. 00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:06.600 Huh? Thank you very much. 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:16.640 Thank you so much, Miriam. 00:24:16.840 --> 00:24:19.320 And then, uh. 00:24:19.320 --> 00:24:23.120 Carlos Benjamín Pereira will 00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:26.120 speak, and he must be online. 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.720 Wait. 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.720 I don't know if Carlos, can you confirm that you are there. 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.480 Good afternoon, very good afternoon. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.480 The person I'm referring to, Carlos Benjamin, is a graduate in Geography, 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.480 History, History Section, Solidarity Award, End of Career, Diploma of 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.200 Advanced Studies and PhD candidate in Medieval History at the University of 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:46.560 Oviedo. 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:51.400 He is interested in the field of Hispanic medieval digital culture, with 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.040 special emphasis on psychological knowledge (I'm sorry, 00:24:54.040 --> 00:24:55.400 paleo-psychological, 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.840 graphic and exotic), geography, bibliography and neo-medieval teaching 00:24:58.840 --> 00:25:00.600 resources. 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:02.120 Novels, films, and comics. 00:25:02.120 --> 00:25:06.120 He has primarily taught at the Faculty of Geography and History of the 00:25:06.120 --> 00:25:09.600 University of Oviedo and at a dozen secondary schools in Asturias. 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.800 He is a co-founder and member of the Editorial Board of Memorándum, Journal of 00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:16.680 Historical Studies of the University of Oviedo. 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.600 He is a regular contributor to the society and power territory. 00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:22.640 Journal of Medieval Studies of the University of 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.640 Oviedo and is coordinator of the Center Working Group. 00:25:26.040 --> 00:25:29.800 Historical novels and picture books of children's literature. 00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:32.400 Developed at the Secondary Education Institute. 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.680 Jerónimo González is also a member of the Editorial Board of Platero. 00:25:37.120 --> 00:25:41.120 Review of Children's and Young Adult Literature, Promotion 00:25:41.120 --> 00:25:45.680 of Reading and School Libraries of the CPR Training Center. 00:25:45.800 --> 00:25:47.800 But no, I don't know the acronym. 00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:51.800 I'm sorry, Carlos from Oviedo, and he has participated in almost a 00:25:51.800 --> 00:25:56.200 hundred courses and congresses as an attendee, speaker, and organizer. 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.960 The title of his presentation is Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose and the 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.640 Principality of Asturias and Carlos, whenever you want, you have the floor. 00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:06.960 Okay, fine? 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.600 First of all, I would like to congratulate the organizing institutions 00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:10.960 of this third 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:14.120 conference, the Rey Juan Carlos University of Madrid and the University 00:26:14.120 --> 00:26:15.720 of Santiago de Compostela. 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.720 And special thanks to professors Antonio Huertas Morales and Reyes, and to Martín 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:23.120 Marcos for his kind invitation to participate in these third conferences 00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:24.840 between archive and fiction. 00:26:25.560 --> 00:26:29.200 Why has He been the subject of this communication, of this presentation? 00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:33.280 Firstly, because this year marks the tenth anniversary of the death 00:26:33.280 --> 00:26:36.640 of Umberto Eco, an author who I believe is very well known. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.520 We'll talk a little bit about everyone in it. 00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:42.520 Secondly, because in four years, in 2030, a series of major events will be 00:26:42.520 --> 00:26:46.520 commemorated: the 50th anniversary, the half-century since the publication 00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:49.680 of his well-known debut novel, The Name of the Rose. 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:54.160 Thirdly, on a personal and totally subjective level, because 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.200 The Name of the Rose is my favorite book for many 00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.200 reasons related to my medievalist training. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:04.640 And in 4th place, because as an Asturian I feel a bit inclined to investigate, 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.640 uh, some ways of linking, of connecting The Name of the Rose with the 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.640 Principality of Asturias, perhaps the best known, the awarding of the 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.320 Prince of Asturias Prize in 2000 to Umberto Eco in the Power, sorry, in the 00:27:16.320 --> 00:27:18.160 PowerPoint he presented. 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.240 It therefore included a kind of introduction before talking 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.880 about ECO's connection with Asturias in relation to a few brief biographical 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:27.720 details. 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.360 Although he is, I think, a very well-known character, and issues of a 00:27:30.360 --> 00:27:31.720 certain type, well, 00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:34.680 related to the novel, the film adaptation, the comic book versions, the 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:36.200 video game, etc., etc. 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:40.960 In fact, since his birth in 32,922 in Alexandria, it is worth mentioning, I 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.960 believe as fundamental milestones, his doctorate in Philosophy at the 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.080 University of Turin, in the year 54, with a thesis on the aesthetics of Saint 00:27:48.080 --> 00:27:49.640 Thomas Aquinas. 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.640 That is to say, he will not only be a professor of semiotics, he will 00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:57.640 be a renowned bibliophile medievalist, a polymath, a polymath 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:01.200 sorry, of a Renaissance character in the strict sense. 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:05.200 His teaching and research at different Italian universities, in the case of 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:09.200 Florence, Turin, Milan, etc. But above all, that chair of semiotics in the 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.440 late 60s and early 70s onwards, in the case of Bologna, which are his most 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.080 outstanding works. 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.320 I know he is a very well-known author who is probably saying things you already 00:28:17.320 --> 00:28:18.680 know, 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.320 but I think it is essential to contextualize the vast erudition of 00:28:21.320 --> 00:28:22.640 Master Greco. 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:27.200 At the essayistic level, it is necessary to mention fundamental 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.200 titles that, moreover, also lay the foundations of my medievalism, 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.840 such as "you ask apocalyptic fables about open" and so many others. 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.280 And at the novelistic or essayistic level, at the novelistic level, his first 00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:39.360 work. 00:28:39.360 --> 00:28:41.840 We mentioned the name of Rosa, but also other well-known ones such as Baldo, 00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:43.080 Lino, 00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:46.080 Foucault's Pendulum, The Story of Before and so many others. 00:28:46.360 --> 00:28:49.640 It is not the purpose here, obviously, to discuss his life or all his works. 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:50.800 But yes in power. 00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:54.280 I wanted to mention a little about that name of the rose, that fundamental 00:28:54.280 --> 00:28:57.280 international bestseller, which I believe is, uh. 00:28:57.520 --> 00:29:00.160 Perhaps it's a personal opinion, but I believe there is no work that compares to 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:01.520 this 00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:05.520 from the point of view of historical novels set in medieval settings, not even 00:29:05.520 --> 00:29:08.680 remotely, the Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett, etc., etc. Okay. 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:12.680 He included in the PowerPoint presentation, before discussing the 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.480 relationship with Asturias, some very generic information about the Art Deco 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:16.920 novel. 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:21.240 From its original publication in Italian in Bombean, in Bilbao 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.840 in 1980 to the first Spanish translation published in Barcelona by Lumen. 00:29:25.840 --> 00:29:30.600 Two years later, in 1982, he mentioned some of the Spanish editions. 00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:34.600 The editorial year included some images and comments relating 00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:38.600 to the essays that a good number of Italian researchers 00:29:38.600 --> 00:29:42.600 dedicated to the novel from different historical, philosophical, 00:29:42.600 --> 00:29:45.640 literary, etc. aspects. In 1987, Lumen published 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.640 the translation from the Italian. 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.200 And then I have here, well, a novel that I mention here as well. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:55.000 I don't know if it will be possible to see it. 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:58.760 I don't think the camera is letting me see it, oh well. 00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:01.840 It is titled Abbeys, Labyrinths and Pixels: Transmedia 00:30:01.840 --> 00:30:04.840 Narratives, which is the name of the rose and is a small book. 00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:07.200 It's 100-something pages, but it's very significant. 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.400 The author is Fran Mateo. 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.000 It was published -1 year ago. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.200 The University of the CAP. 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.200 And well, I think it's important from the point of view of that interpretation 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:17.840 of what would be a bit of the dissemination of Eco's novel in languages 00:30:17.840 --> 00:30:19.200 ​​that 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.920 are not only literary, but also filmic, bibliographic, and so on. 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.880 He also mentioned with images the well-known film adaptation, the 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:31.880 documentaries from 1986 and 2004, the famous television miniseries 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:35.880 that did not reach the same literary quality, the comics by Milo Manara 00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:39.880 which curiously appear together in the Catalan edition and not as they 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.520 are published in Spanish in two, in two entries, the video games, 00:30:43.520 --> 00:30:46.520 the board games, the extensive merchandising. 00:30:46.520 --> 00:30:49.920 In other words, I believe that a great deal has been written about 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.920 this novel; there are even conferences and doctoral theses. 00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:56.680 I believe it is very well known and widely publicized that 00:30:57.800 --> 00:31:00.800 They are a. 00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:06.560 Perfect echo and the name of pink. 00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:12.440 This is, 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.880 evidently and currently History of Communication and Humanities in the year 00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:17.640 2000. 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.960 It will therefore record what would be the data. 00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:25.440 Various identifiers for members and female members. 00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:29.480 The jury's word and, above all, the most important reason why the Eco prize was 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:31.480 awarded. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.000 You tell me. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:35.960 These are connection problems. 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.680 I don't know if he's perfectly fine, if he's a little better now. 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.800 At least we can hear the image if it keeps cutting out, but then we can hear 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:43.400 it properly. 00:31:44.800 --> 00:31:45.120 May I? 00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:47.120 I don't know what the problem is with this connection. 00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:47.840 I apologize. I am here. 00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:51.400 Please just try again another time. 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:53.960 But it won't let me. Do you have any...? 00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.520 Here's another option. 00:31:56.520 --> 00:32:00.080 Yes, yes, let's move on to the next 00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:03.080 speaker and give it a try. 00:32:03.560 --> 00:32:07.560 Try connecting again in about half an hour to see 00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:11.600 if the connection is a little better. No luck? 00:32:12.520 --> 00:32:12.840 Come on. 00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:15.520 Thank you so much, Carlos, and I'm very sorry. 00:32:15.520 --> 00:32:18.520 I have it now. 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.880 Okay, so we move on to the third speaker at the table, who is 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.760 alucinaron, I don't know if I pronounced it correctly. 00:32:29.760 --> 00:32:33.760 Azucena, who holds a doctorate in the Medieval Studies program at the 00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:37.760 University of Santiago de Compostela, has already participated on 00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:41.760 several occasions in the activities organized by Professor Antonio 00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:45.160 Huertas in relation to nineteenth-century history. 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:49.920 And now she is working on her doctoral thesis on the use of the Middle Ages 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.920 in 19th-century Spain through the historical novel, under the direction 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.320 of Professor Israel Sanmartín Barros, with whom she also works on 00:32:57.320 --> 00:32:59.040 historiography issues. 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:02.680 The title of the presentation Azucena is Urraca, first of León, in the 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.680 nineteenth-century historical novel by Patricia de las Costuras. 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.160 The liberal use of the medieval queen. 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:11.800 So Azucena, whenever you want, go ahead. 00:33:11.800 --> 00:33:13.400 Can you hear me? 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:14.000 I have to. 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.800 I don't have to give the class, otherwise they're green, they're green. 00:33:17.800 --> 00:33:19.000 This deserves it. 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:19.920 Ah, okay. 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:23.920 Well, many thanks to Professor Bautista Bonet for the 00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.920 presentation and also to Professor Isla de San Martín and 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.440 Antonio Huertas for allowing me to be part of the organization and to present 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.200 here today. 00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:37.360 Well, the work I am going to do today is a reflective experiment on the 00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:39.200 construction of the history of Spain. 00:33:41.080 --> 00:33:45.080 Uh, the construction of Queen Urraca and how this medieval 00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:49.080 queen is used by the nineteenth-century liberal regime 00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:53.080 based on popular demand and the gender conception in 00:33:53.080 --> 00:33:58.960 which the medieval queen and the nineteenth-century queen are conceived. 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.200 On the other hand. 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.960 To do this we will analyze how a 19th century author reflects a medieval queen, 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:06.880 Magpie, the first of Castile and León. 00:34:07.040 --> 00:34:10.040 In his historical novel The Count of Cádiz, Espino. 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.880 And we are going to do it based on a series of theoretical 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.880 works that we can organize into three points. 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.360 Firstly, intellectual history, because what we do is a work of historiography 00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.880 and we do it by studying texts within their contexts, based on a methodology 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:27.640 and theoretical foundations. 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:34.520 Two The History of Gender by Joan Wallace Scott and the Kings Studies. 00:34:35.120 --> 00:34:39.120 Gender history, on the one hand, allows us to see gender as an 00:34:39.120 --> 00:34:43.120 analytical category that depends on the context in which it 00:34:43.120 --> 00:34:47.120 develops, and on the other hand, studies allow us to link 00:34:47.120 --> 00:34:51.120 gender as an analytical category with the importance of the 00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:54.280 queen in the structure and historical fiction. 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.280 Finally, we have the political thinking of the class, and this 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.280 theoretical tool works from the fact that the historical novel 00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:06.120 functions for us as a channel of dissemination for nineteenth-century 00:35:06.120 --> 00:35:08.080 liberal political discourse. 00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:12.920 With this we can understand that the historical novel is a place where 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.920 popular demands are concentrated, a concept that, according to Laclau, 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:20.360 produces a political discourse and is also a place where those popular demands 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.120 materialize. 00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:23.880 In this case. 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:26.880 So we'll see how this popular demand is met, huh? 00:35:27.240 --> 00:35:31.240 Does this popular liberal demand to legitimize the 19th-century 00:35:31.240 --> 00:35:35.240 queen Maria Cristina de Borbón, or Isabel II, merge with the 00:35:35.240 --> 00:35:39.240 popular demand to have a history of Spain and will it blossom 00:35:39.240 --> 00:35:43.240 into the creation of a first magpie of León, who functions 00:35:43.240 --> 00:35:47.240 according to specific gender parameters, some of them 00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:51.240 continuations of the Middle Ages and others that will be new, 00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:55.200 eh? For this, we are going to, uh, take a series of steps. 00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:58.200 First, let's see that Urraca was a real person. 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.880 Secondly, it is that he is a character who was built from his 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.600 own time until today, from a series of texts, documents, sources. 00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:09.160 For us. 00:36:09.160 --> 00:36:12.560 And finally, we will see how this is reflected in the 19th century 00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:15.560 by Patricia de las Costuras in her historical novel. 00:36:16.040 --> 00:36:18.680 This is where we will see the nineteenth-century context and how the 00:36:18.680 --> 00:36:20.040 novel 00:36:20.040 --> 00:36:23.000 materializes the liberal popular demand through the categories of genre and 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:24.520 originality. 00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.560 So, let's begin by introducing Urraca. 00:36:29.560 --> 00:36:34.400 He is a controversial figure from his time to the present day. 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.400 As I said, the different sources offer 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.200 us different and opposing views. 00:36:42.200 --> 00:36:46.000 However, there are a number of historical statements that we can affirm, and those 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.920 are the ones we have on screen. 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:53.560 I have chosen not to give a speech about the entire history of Urraca. 00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:56.680 Yes, and only. 00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.880 To account for the characteristics that we know more or less 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.160 for certain according to the documents, huh? 00:37:07.120 --> 00:37:08.400 That's right. The. 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:13.040 She is a character who had to fight for her legitimacy as queen. 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.840 She is the first queen in her own right in the history of Spain and Europe. 00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:21.080 Daughter of Alfonso VI and Constance of Burgundy, she ruled 00:37:21.080 --> 00:37:24.160 the Kingdom of León for 17 years after the death 00:37:24.160 --> 00:37:27.160 of her only brother, Sancho Alfonso. 00:37:27.240 --> 00:37:27.880 Alfonso. 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.880 Much of the nobility and clergy distrusted her ability to lead and govern 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:34.840 because she was a woman. 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:39.920 And we will see that this same situation is what will happen with Isabel 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.920 II in the 19th century, although for her the law had to be altered and 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.280 for Urraca it did not, although it was necessary to constantly reaffirm her 00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:49.000 authority. 00:37:49.600 --> 00:37:53.120 Secondly, she lived through a disastrous marriage that was key to the succession 00:37:53.120 --> 00:37:54.880 of Spanish medieval history. 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:59.120 She was married to Alfonso I of Aragon, the Battler, after the death of her first 00:37:59.120 --> 00:38:01.000 husband. 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.000 This second marriage was imposed by Urraca's father, and the 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.600 incompatibility of the two spouses divided the Iberian Peninsula 00:38:08.600 --> 00:38:11.600 between supporters of one and supporters of the other. 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.400 Finally, the marriage was annulled due to consanguinity. 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:21.280 Finally, we must highlight that Urraca faced a kingdom marked by chaos. 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.560 Its historical context is one of constant war and social unrest. 00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:28.560 Extensive relationship with the Church, especially with the Bishop of Santiago de 00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:31.800 Compostela, Diego Jiménez, and resistance against the Almoravids. 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:36.480 Finally, Urraca was able to maintain the territorial unity of a 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.480 kingdom that her son Alfonso would later inherit. 7th. 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:46.160 We now turn to the sources from which this medieval magpie is reconstructed. 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.000 On one hand we have the sources contemporary to the queen, the history of 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:50.360 Santiago 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:52.840 de Compostela, which has an ecclesiastical and Galician perspective 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:54.120 that 00:38:54.120 --> 00:38:57.120 shows her as an ambitious, unstable and sinful woman. 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.960 Then we have the chronicle of Fonsi Emperatriz, which has a dynastic 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.480 perspective. 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:07.880 Here she is seen as the mother of the emperor who ruled in difficult times and 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:11.640 The main focus is on Queen Urraca as a mother. 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.520 Then we have the Andalusian chronicle. 00:39:15.520 --> 00:39:18.640 Agustina, who does indeed give an account of the witness of the social and civil 00:39:18.640 --> 00:39:20.200 order. 00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:24.600 Then we have sources such as the late diploma of Urraca Primera 00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:28.600 and the record of council data, which allow us to see empirically 00:39:28.600 --> 00:39:31.720 how the Queen was exercising power and doing so 00:39:31.720 --> 00:39:34.720 as she could within her own context. 00:39:36.640 --> 00:39:40.640 On the other hand, we have the medieval sources that come after Urraca's 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:44.520 life, but still in the Middle Ages we have the Rebus Hispania and Rodrigo 00:39:44.520 --> 00:39:47.520 Jiménez de Rada, which offer a critical view of the Queen. 00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:51.520 Focusing on the failure of her marriage to Alfonso I of Aragon, 00:39:51.520 --> 00:39:55.360 the Quran and with Mundi and the history of Spain of Alfonso X 00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.360 collects the traditions of the previous Mmm. 00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.360 And they place Urraca within the genealogy of the kings of 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:06.040 Castile and León, but a moralistic tone is always adopted regarding her personal 00:40:06.040 --> 00:40:07.880 life. 00:40:09.080 --> 00:40:11.720 The accumulation of this data and its interpretations by later Asturians 00:40:11.720 --> 00:40:13.080 created 00:40:13.080 --> 00:40:17.080 and recreated the figure of Urraca from the Middle Ages, passing through the 00:40:17.080 --> 00:40:21.080 different histories of Spain that were made, from Juan, from Mariana in the 16th 00:40:21.080 --> 00:40:24.920 century to Modesto Lafuente and already in the second half of the 19th century. 00:40:25.720 --> 00:40:29.720 Modesto Lafuente portrays this queen as a disturbance of order who let 00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:33.520 herself be carried away by her private life and allowed it to influence her 00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:35.440 political government. 00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:39.800 He sees her as a cause of the scandals, 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:42.800 wars, and turmoil of her time. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:47.160 Today, historiography seeks to debunk all these myths about Urraca. 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:51.480 Thus, Magpie the First is no longer treated as an accident in the line of 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.480 succession, but as a bold politician who inherited a kingdom on the verge 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:58.520 of collapse and managed to hand it over to her son Alfonso VII, intact and 00:40:58.520 --> 00:41:00.040 strengthened. 00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:05.120 She is recognized as the woman who proved that the throne of León was not a matter 00:41:05.120 --> 00:41:07.120 of sex, but of leadership ability. 00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:11.560 We have a paradigmatic example in the work of Hermelinda Portela 00:41:11.560 --> 00:41:15.560 and María del Carmen Pallarés, which has also helped me to understand 00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:18.960 all those sources through which Queen Urraca is constructed in the medieval 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:20.680 party. 00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:25.480 But with all this we can reflect on the history of Spanish 00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.480 historiography, in the sense that new histories have been 00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:33.000 created, from medieval chronicles to current historiography. 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:37.000 But here I want to stop to talk about the nineteenth-century 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.400 historical novel as another link in this Spanish history. 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.560 We have already been talking about the historiographical importance of the 00:41:43.560 --> 00:41:46.560 historical novel, in the sense that it is a great tool for dissemination. 00:41:46.720 --> 00:41:50.000 And above all, by understanding it within the romantic historiographical 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.000 context in which history as a science did not yet exist as such. 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.760 And it is here that we understand the novel that concerns us today, which is 00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.720 the Count of Conde Espina, by Patricia de las Costuras. 00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:06.640 Yesterday we said that most of these authors of these 00:42:06.640 --> 00:42:10.640 nineteenth-century historical novels expressly state that 00:42:10.640 --> 00:42:13.960 they do not try to make what they relate true, but truthful. 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.320 But Patricia's expulsion is an exception within this. 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.120 And he declares himself a faithful historian, as well as making constant 00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:24.120 allusions to a chronicle that he never says what it is. 00:42:24.640 --> 00:42:28.200 At least in the editions I saw, eh. 00:42:28.200 --> 00:42:32.200 Is Patricia Rosco one of those public writers that Professor Gonzalo 00:42:32.200 --> 00:42:36.200 Pasa Mar was talking about? Is she an intellectual or proto-intellectual, 00:42:36.200 --> 00:42:39.240 as Professor Luis Bautista would say, eh? 00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:43.400 He is a politician, journalist, playwright, historian, photographer, 00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.960 critic and romantic writer, and a member of the Royal Spanish Academy. 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.760 And above all, it is important to highlight that it was liberalism 00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:54.800 moderate. In 00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.120 The historical context in which it is published, his novel belongs to the end 00:42:59.120 --> 00:43:00.720 of the ominous decade. 00:43:01.080 --> 00:43:05.080 That period between 1823 and 1833, the last stage of the 00:43:05.080 --> 00:43:10.800 reign of Ferdinand VII, had responded to a reestablishment of absolutism in Spain. 00:43:11.720 --> 00:43:14.720 At the same time, liberal conspiracies were taking place. 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:16.640 This is important, huh? 00:43:16.640 --> 00:43:19.280 Because I want to emphasize that in the ominous decade, and especially towards 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:20.640 the 00:43:20.640 --> 00:43:23.400 end, there were already circles of liberal intellectuals, such as Patricio 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:24.800 Velasco. 00:43:26.040 --> 00:43:30.040 In this context, our author's context also pertains to the 00:43:30.040 --> 00:43:34.640 succession problem of Ferdinand VII, who found himself without male children. 00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:38.440 A girl, Isabel II, is born on October 10, 1830 and is named 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:41.440 the legitimate heir to the Spanish throne. 00:43:42.120 --> 00:43:46.120 We also know that Ferdinand VII carried out the pragmatic sanction, 00:43:46.120 --> 00:43:50.080 abolishing the phallic law that prevented women from ruling. 00:43:50.080 --> 00:43:53.520 In other words, there is a change in the law to give legitimacy to Isabel II as 00:43:53.520 --> 00:43:55.240 future queen. 00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:00.400 This caused the division of Spain between 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:05.480 liberals and Carlists, thus creating the two sides. 00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:10.400 Huh? Where is the liberal side the one that supports it, huh? 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:12.640 These queens? 00:44:12.640 --> 00:44:16.640 Therefore, we find three queen figures in this work: Maria 00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:20.640 Cristina de Borbón, Urraca I and Isabel II, which we can study 00:44:20.640 --> 00:44:24.520 with those theoretical tools of the prince and gender history. 00:44:24.520 --> 00:44:29.440 First, because they are female figures who exert power over a specific context. 00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:33.200 They are figures of reigning women, legitimate heirs and queens. 00:44:33.200 --> 00:44:35.840 In the case of Urraca and Isabel and Regent in the case of Maria Cristina, 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:37.200 they 00:44:37.200 --> 00:44:40.360 are female figures who have an influence on their context. 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:44.880 The very existence of this work by Patricia de las Costuras is a 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.880 product of the influence of the mere existence of the future Queen 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.880 Isabel, who at this time was only two years old, but who would embody 00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:57.360 the liberal ideals of the various late nineteenth-century intellectuals. 00:44:58.240 --> 00:45:02.240 If we consider our theoretical tool of gender history, Joan Wallace 00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:06.240 Scott tells us that gender is not constructed from four elements, 00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:10.240 which are those we can see on screen, but I am going to explain them by 00:45:10.240 --> 00:45:14.240 observing how it would apply to both the medieval queen on the one 00:45:14.240 --> 00:45:17.400 hand and the nineteenth-century queen on the other. 00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:22.680 First, we have the culturally available symbols, those symbols that 00:45:22.680 --> 00:45:26.280 evoke multiple and often contradictory representations of gender with the 00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.120 Winship is in mind. 00:45:28.600 --> 00:45:32.160 In this work we discuss the symbolism of power in both societies. 00:45:32.160 --> 00:45:33.600 It is a masculine symbolism. 00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:37.000 In the medieval case there is the symbol of the warrior king, judge and protector. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.680 This continued into the 19th century. 00:45:38.680 --> 00:45:42.680 But there is also the existence of a public opinion that contrasts 00:45:42.680 --> 00:45:46.720 what is expected of a woman with what is expected of a queen. 00:45:48.520 --> 00:45:52.520 Secondly, normative concepts, which are those concepts that 00:45:52.520 --> 00:45:56.520 advance, interpretations about symbols that attempt to limit and 00:45:56.520 --> 00:46:00.520 contain their metaphorical possibilities, are the concepts that 00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:04.520 are expressed in religious, educational, scientific, legal and 00:46:04.520 --> 00:46:08.200 political doctrines and acquire fixed binary oppositions. 00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.880 What is feminine is feminine and what is masculine is masculine. 00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:16.840 In both cases we find a social norm according to which women 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:19.840 cannot exercise command because they are not capable. 00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:24.680 In the case of the Middle Ages, although Urraca's case is an exception, 00:46:24.680 --> 00:46:28.280 canon law and feudal customs dictated that the king had to be a man. 00:46:29.120 --> 00:46:32.120 In the nineteenth century we find the same situation. 00:46:32.200 --> 00:46:35.080 But Fernando VII, as we saw, had changed that rule. 00:46:37.080 --> 00:46:41.080 Thirdly, having institutions and social organizations is the 00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:44.080 reference to all the institutions that legitimize 00:46:44.080 --> 00:46:47.080 the normative concepts of gender that we have just seen. 00:46:47.240 --> 00:46:51.240 In the medieval case, the legitimizing institutions are the feudal system 00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:54.160 and the Church, and in the nineteenth-century case they are the army 00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:55.640 and politics. 00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.560 And finally, subjective identity, which refers to the construction 00:46:59.560 --> 00:47:02.560 of gender identity based on the previous elements. 00:47:03.160 --> 00:47:07.120 Taking into account here also the fact that real men and women 00:47:07.120 --> 00:47:10.120 do not always satisfy these symbols literally. 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:11.880 Magpie first is magpie first. 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.880 And the same goes for Maria Cristina and Isabel II. 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:18.960 However, we can see that there is a need to legitimize the 19th-century queen for 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:22.480 the functioning of the liberal system, and for this, the first step is to find a 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.240 reflection in the Middle Ages. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:30.880 Patrick of the seams can be seen as an attempt to. 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:34.880 From this emerges the figure of Urraca I, extracting her from those 00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:38.880 earlier sources and placing her in the nineteenth-century present, 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:42.160 anticipating the situation of a Spain that already had a 00:47:42.160 --> 00:47:45.160 female heir in whom it would pour the liberal ideal. 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:49.360 We will see how a magpie is painted that follows all these symbols 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:54.760 we have seen and that ultimately creates a confusing interpretation of the queen. 00:47:55.560 --> 00:47:58.200 She has many flaws, but at the end of the day she is the legitimate queen and as 00:47:58.200 --> 00:47:59.560 such 00:47:59.560 --> 00:48:02.200 she must be respected and needs to be surrounded by people who know how to 00:48:02.200 --> 00:48:03.520 guide her. 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.000 Thus we see how we view the culturally available symbols 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.240 that provide a queen who reflects her role as a 00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:14.240 woman, to give offspring, to give an heir. 00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:18.240 Thus, Patricio de las Costuras exposes a raca mother of Alfonso VII and 00:48:18.240 --> 00:48:22.240 also expresses the anger of the Galicians when Urraca, under the command 00:48:22.240 --> 00:48:25.520 of Pedro de Lara, of course, sits on the throne of her son. 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:29.200 I say, of course, because Urraca could not decide on her own, by herself, to sit 00:48:29.200 --> 00:48:30.880 on the throne. 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.440 It also emphasizes the different topical characteristics 00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:37.440 of what a woman is and what a woman in power is. 00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.800 Thus it says that no matter how used a woman is in her projects, no matter how 00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:42.160 much she is accustomed 00:48:42.160 --> 00:48:45.600 to witnessing great events and to being involved in them, when the time comes for 00:48:45.600 --> 00:48:47.360 a fight, her strength abandons her. 00:48:48.520 --> 00:48:52.520 It also refers to his character, which, despite 00:48:52.520 --> 00:48:55.600 his ambitious nature, falters on 00:48:55.600 --> 00:48:58.600 that occasion and he has to hide it. 00:48:59.080 --> 00:49:01.840 She's ambitious, but at the end of the day, she's a woman. 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.760 The weaker sex, so brutality disgusts her because her nature is to be sweet to 00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.720 soothe men. 00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:12.480 Here Patricio del Arco Sura expresses the idea about Urraca that she 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:16.240 is deluded regarding her position of power and does not understand what her 00:49:16.240 --> 00:49:18.120 advisors tell her. 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.360 Here we have that idea that it is important. 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.720 Consider the people the queen surrounds herself with and how her actions harm 00:49:27.720 --> 00:49:29.680 these people. 00:49:30.040 --> 00:49:34.040 In this story, we have Urraca again as a mother, but also Urraca as a 00:49:34.040 --> 00:49:38.040 queen, who is governed by a male figure, in this case Don Pedro de Lara, 00:49:38.040 --> 00:49:42.040 who, as the author says, was the one who governed everything in his 00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:46.040 house and who, insensibly and by force of flattery, came to acquire 00:49:46.040 --> 00:49:49.840 such ascendancy over the spirit of Doña Urraca that she did not know how to take 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:51.760 a step without his advice. 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.720 However, the author constantly talks about the queen's beauty. 00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.160 The queen has to conform to the normative concepts of the female gender and meet an 00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:01.840 ideal of beauty. 00:50:02.120 --> 00:50:05.080 The Queen of Castile is constantly defined by her beauty. 00:50:05.080 --> 00:50:09.080 She is the queen of beauty, as it says here, who has seduced two chivalrous 00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:13.400 characters, the Count-Aide-de-Camp of Spina and the Count of Lara. 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.680 And you must choose between the two of them. 00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:18.680 The plot of the second volume is basically this. 00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:22.680 On the other hand, and as always happens with women in power, she is labeled as 00:50:22.680 --> 00:50:24.640 capricious and arrogant. 00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:29.360 She is also extremely haughty, inconsistent in love, but always 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.320 beautiful and always with undeniable rights to the throne of Castile. 00:50:34.680 --> 00:50:38.040 Beatriz from the sculpture is predicting the way in which she will characterize 00:50:38.040 --> 00:50:39.720 Isabel II. 00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:43.680 Years later, it is an example of how gender symbolism is repeated about a 00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:45.680 queen. 00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:49.000 Of course, the same applies to the Kings. 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:51.840 The thing is, being the queen makes it a more isolated case, and its 00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.680 characteristics are directly attributed to her gender. 00:50:54.720 --> 00:50:57.240 It is a case study. 00:50:57.240 --> 00:51:00.400 This is because there are a number of institutions and social 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:03.400 organizations that operate according to these stereotypes. 00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:06.800 In the medieval case, the feudal system dictates the tasks that a king must carry 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.320 out. 00:51:09.520 --> 00:51:13.120 And within this institution, Urraca is often defined by her 00:51:13.120 --> 00:51:16.120 status as the daughter of Alfonso VI of Castile. 00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:19.920 Here the author puts Alfonso VII but he is referring to Alfonso VI. 00:51:20.080 --> 00:51:23.120 It's normal with so many Alfonsos. 00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:25.480 But. 00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:29.160 But this institution is the one that establishes the heir to the throne, and 00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:31.040 that should be emphasized. 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:33.560 This idea is constantly repeated. 00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:38.920 And the medieval institution that governs realities is the Church. 00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:43.360 In this case, it is the Church that must calm the unrest caused by the queen's 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.320 senseless actions. 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:49.360 We can also include here that it is the Church that declares her marriage to 00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:52.360 Alfonso the Battler null and that this will grant her freedom. 00:51:53.120 --> 00:51:56.120 Ultimately, Urraca is a queen constructed by her gender. 00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:58.400 That is what has determined their identity. 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.360 She is a daughter, a mother, a lover; she is beautiful, capricious, tyrannical, and 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:01.360 evil. 00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:02.800 When he exercises power. 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:03.960 Fragile and naive. 00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:06.960 When she does not exercise it and it should be exercised by her. 00:52:07.600 --> 00:52:10.840 Whatever the case, it always and at the same time, it always has to be protected. 00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:15.040 But the queen herself is aware of her position and is the object of all kinds 00:52:15.040 --> 00:52:16.760 of suspicion. 00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:18.640 Yes, all kinds. 00:52:18.640 --> 00:52:20.400 If they see her with a man. 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:24.400 But most importantly, at the end of the novel, Magpie is the one who holds the 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:27.920 power and ends up learning that she must not give it up to anyone. 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.560 Thus, what we finally have is the reconstruction of a medieval queen that 00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:32.920 responds 00:52:32.920 --> 00:52:36.760 to the theoretical gender elements of the nineteenth-century queen. 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:40.760 Given the contextual situation of a succession crisis, given 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:45.440 the fact that the heir to the throne was a two-year-old girl, a woman. 00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:49.440 And here the theoretical tool of political thought comes into 00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:53.440 play; in the novel it is a cultural product that serves as a bridge 00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:57.160 between liberal political discourse and the people. 00:52:57.520 --> 00:53:00.480 It is with this idea in mind that we move on to the conclusions, which are more 00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:02.000 like conclusions. 00:53:02.080 --> 00:53:04.040 These are issues. 00:53:04.040 --> 00:53:08.040 Historical figures are constructed from the accumulation of sources 00:53:08.040 --> 00:53:12.040 whose production and interpretation respond to the different popular 00:53:12.040 --> 00:53:15.320 demands of the societies that produce and/or receive them 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:18.320 and that construct their political discourse. 00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:19.080 From that point on. 00:53:20.680 --> 00:53:24.440 We have before us a novelistic recreation of Magpie First in a grand plot, 00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.320 completely serialized. 00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.360 This novel adheres to the normative canons of the genre. 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:34.480 It portrays the Count of Espina as a chivalrous hero and Urraca as a queen who 00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:38.320 is a victim who must be saved, but who wields power even though she does so 00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:41.320 with the shortcomings that come with her condition. 00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.320 Woman's condition. 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:45.960 The novel is a cultural product, but it carries implicitly, in this case through 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:47.320 the conception 00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:50.360 of the queen, a political message in this way, which is the nineteenth-century 00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:51.880 historical novel. 00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.320 It is not only the construction of political discourse, it is also the 00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:55.560 object of 00:53:55.560 --> 00:53:58.560 popular popularization of a nineteenth-century Middle Ages. 00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:02.120 The historical novel presents itself to me as another link in the chain of 00:54:02.120 --> 00:54:03.520 extrusion towards the author. 00:54:03.520 --> 00:54:06.800 It has the historian's intention and also does something that is generally seen as 00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:08.440 something typical of our reality. 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:12.440 It is the history of women. And so we can say that the history 00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:16.440 of women, the history of gender, is in itself a popular demand 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:20.320 that works for the construction of discourses of power. 00:54:21.560 --> 00:54:25.560 Patricia de la escultura is already giving value, albeit with her clichés 00:54:25.560 --> 00:54:29.720 and through her 19th-century context, to a medieval woman as a figure of power. 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.000 That's all, thank you. 00:54:38.600 --> 00:54:40.720 Thank you very much, Azucena. 00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:44.680 And now we move on to the last one. 00:54:44.680 --> 00:54:46.720 Yes, the latest version. Yes. 00:54:46.720 --> 00:54:49.880 And we'll see if we can get Carlos Pereira 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.880 to reconnect so we can listen to him. 00:54:54.560 --> 00:54:58.560 But anyway, let's move on to the last one, the very last one of those 00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:02.560 scheduled presentations, which will be that of Pablo Fernández Pérez, 00:55:02.560 --> 00:55:06.560 who is already a Doctor of Medieval Studies from the University of 00:55:06.560 --> 00:55:10.560 Santiago de Compostela and whose research has focused on the study of 00:55:10.560 --> 00:55:14.840 the medieval apocalypse from a historical and historiographical perspective. 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:19.280 In addition, as part of the team working on Medieval History and Historiography 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:23.280 at the University of Santiago, he has also worked on different topics related 00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:27.280 to the historical novel and has already collaborated on several occasions in 00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.280 these activities organized by our dear Antonio Huertas. 00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:34.640 The title of Pablo's presentation is the apocalyptic medieval 00:55:34.640 --> 00:55:37.640 earthquake in the 19th-century historical novel. 00:55:38.240 --> 00:55:39.480 Yes, Pablo, whenever you want. 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:42.160 Forward. 00:55:42.160 --> 00:55:45.160 Well, thank you very much for the presentation. 00:55:45.160 --> 00:55:48.160 I'll see if this works. 00:55:49.240 --> 00:55:53.240 And well, also all my colleagues in the 00:55:53.240 --> 00:55:57.240 organization of this event for creating 00:55:57.240 --> 00:56:01.240 this space where we can talk and discuss 00:56:01.240 --> 00:56:05.400 with the 19th century as the focus, right? 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:10.480 From different points of view, and I, 00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:14.480 well, I'm going to talk about a topic, 00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:18.480 an aspect of this nineteenth-century 00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:22.360 Middle Ages, to use the terms Azucena. 00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:28.840 But Azucena. 00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:30.640 Where is it going? Like I said. 00:56:30.640 --> 00:56:34.640 Can we consider that it is somewhat outside of 00:56:34.640 --> 00:56:38.640 the major themes, the major processes we have 00:56:38.640 --> 00:56:42.640 been talking about, not the processes of 00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:46.640 nation-building, not the legitimization of 00:56:46.640 --> 00:56:50.640 political systems, which in some way is certainly 00:56:50.640 --> 00:56:54.640 related, but is it related, like many other 00:56:54.640 --> 00:57:00.320 cultural products that we have seen throughout these days, eh? 00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:03.680 With that interest in the wondrous dimension 00:57:03.680 --> 00:57:06.680 of the Middle Ages and in other kinds of 00:57:06.680 --> 00:57:09.680 of issues. 00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:13.920 Uh, and I'm going to talk about historical 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:18.120 novels, indeed, mainly about two. 00:57:18.120 --> 00:57:22.120 But above all, what I'm going to try to do is, uh, take a detour 00:57:22.120 --> 00:57:26.120 outside of the historical novel, talking about other things 00:57:26.120 --> 00:57:30.120 that existed in the 19th century, which aren't historical 00:57:30.120 --> 00:57:34.120 novels, but in which medieval polytheism is present. I'm 00:57:34.120 --> 00:57:38.120 going to try to use those other things, that little detour, 00:57:38.120 --> 00:57:42.120 to contextualize the historical novel or the use of the 00:57:42.120 --> 00:57:45.520 medieval police in the historical novel, uh? 00:57:45.640 --> 00:57:48.640 And that's what I'm most interested in. Right? 00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:53.320 And well, regarding either of these two issues, 00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:57.320 I will try to raise some reflections or questions 00:57:57.320 --> 00:58:00.320 at the end based on what we have seen. 00:58:02.560 --> 00:58:05.560 Well. 00:58:06.720 --> 00:58:10.720 Medieval alcoholism is a relatively common 00:58:10.720 --> 00:58:13.720 element, with a relative presence 00:58:13.720 --> 00:58:16.720 in 19th-century historical novels. 00:58:16.720 --> 00:58:20.720 We could certainly think of very different and 00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:24.720 varied examples, but I, as an example, am going to 00:58:24.720 --> 00:58:28.720 bring two, two specific examples, not because 00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:32.720 they are the most representative, or the most 00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:36.720 important, or anything like that, but because 00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:39.920 they are two examples that I know better than I do. 00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.200 I think they can be useful to us, as I say, as an example, without any further 00:58:43.200 --> 00:58:44.840 pretension. 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:51.360 The first example, the first text of the first 00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:55.360 novel that I want to bring up is this novel, The 00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:59.360 Hidden Man of Valencia, published in 1852, eh, by 00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:03.360 a Valencian author and very linked to the Valencian 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:06.680 regionalist movement, Vicente Boix, eh? 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:11.480 A figure whose work includes stories, 00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:15.480 novels, poems, figures, and, uh, as there 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:19.480 were many others in this specific era, this 00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:23.480 particular novel, Valencia, uh, well, it 00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:27.480 is based on, it does not present us with a 00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:31.480 character, uh, who appears in the context 00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:34.760 of the Germanic revolt in Valencia, uh? 00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:38.760 A supposed rebel leader who claims 00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:42.760 to be, uh, the grandson of the 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:46.760 Catholic Monarchs and who attributes 00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:50.240 to himself, or to whom, uh? 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.880 The confirmation of a series of existing prophecies. 00:59:55.880 --> 00:59:57.880 We'll see them circulating now. 00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:01.880 Since the late Middle Ages, regarding the hidden one, this character 01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:05.040 is identified with the hidden one, who is a messianic character that we will see 01:00:05.040 --> 01:00:06.640 now. 01:00:06.640 --> 01:00:09.640 What is its origin? 01:00:09.720 --> 01:00:10.720 Well, this is an example. 01:00:10.720 --> 01:00:14.480 It's a historical episode that's 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:17.480 supported by chronicles. Isn't it? 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:21.280 It tells us about the purity of this character in the Germanic traditions. 01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:25.360 Escolano in his decades, Prudencio Sandoval, 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:30.200 The History, The Life of Emperor Charles V and some others. 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.440 And is he, uh, as I say, a messianic character, uh, that we 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.440 can trace back to texts from the time of the Catholic Monarchs, 01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:45.000 like this book of great deeds of John, which is the first one he mentions, uh? 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:48.080 That messianic figure in disguise, huh? 01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:52.840 Although it gives it some specific connotations within 01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:57.400 real Catholic contexts, which will later change in Germanic ones. 01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:00.400 And in the novel, it's different. 01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:07.040 So this is a concrete example, nothing more. 01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:08.160 We'll leave it at that. 01:01:08.160 --> 01:01:12.160 It is an example that uses, as I say, real medieval 01:01:12.160 --> 01:01:16.160 prophecies in quotation marks, not existing, 01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:19.480 circulating in the Middle Ages. 01:01:20.080 --> 01:01:24.080 And then we have other examples that offer us 01:01:24.080 --> 01:01:28.760 prophecies that we can consider invented or fictitious. 01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.880 One of these cases is that of the red novel in red, 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:36.880 the page of those with golden hair, published in 01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:40.880 1857, also by an author from the field of rationalism, 01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.880 in this case the Galician rationalism Benito y 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:48.080 Ceto, a figure similar to Vox. 01:01:48.080 --> 01:01:52.040 In a sense, this is Galician history; it has poems, it has novels, and this is one 01:01:52.040 --> 01:01:54.040 of them. 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:56.080 In this case, the novel. 01:01:56.080 --> 01:02:00.080 Its central theme is all the political intrigues that 01:02:00.080 --> 01:02:03.640 take place in the context of the reign of García, 01:02:03.640 --> 01:02:06.640 known as García of Galicia. Right? 01:02:06.640 --> 01:02:10.640 And within this web of intrigues, of palace 01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:14.640 political disputes, in this context, he 01:02:14.640 --> 01:02:18.760 introduces some apocalyptic elements. 01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:22.760 For example, he refers to this supposed prophecy of the old man 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:26.760 of the night's dreams, in which he speaks of the Andrade family 01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:29.800 and of an Andrade who will be so good that the 01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:32.800 memory will last, that is, until the end of time. 01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:37.360 Is it a prophecy, in principle, fictitious, 01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:42.040 invented, although I have sketched it in a note, eh? 01:02:42.040 --> 01:02:44.680 This information tells us that the night dreams is a place located in the nursery, 01:02:44.680 --> 01:02:46.040 where, 01:02:46.040 --> 01:02:49.920 according to tradition, an old man lived who prophesied the events of the country. 01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:52.800 Well, here we have an example of a prophecy in fictional theory, although we 01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.160 could 01:02:54.160 --> 01:02:58.160 already make a first reflection, which is that it is not really so relevant whether 01:02:58.160 --> 01:03:00.800 we are talking about real prophecies or fictional prophecies, because in 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:02.160 themselves 01:03:02.160 --> 01:03:05.440 supposedly real prophecies also include fictional elements. 01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:09.640 In the Middle Ages, the invention of authorship of 01:03:09.640 --> 01:03:14.200 prophecies, the manipulation of content, is a constitutive element. 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:18.400 Therefore, we could even say that historical novels are. 01:03:18.400 --> 01:03:19.080 In this sense. 01:03:21.240 --> 01:03:24.200 One more layer, a contemporary layer. 01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:27.840 Within the whole process of creating fictions that is inherent 01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.840 to the history of the medieval police, right? 01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:34.600 But anyway, these will just be two examples. 01:03:34.600 --> 01:03:36.120 Not strictly. 01:03:36.120 --> 01:03:39.120 What interests me most, what interests me most, is. 01:03:42.520 --> 01:03:46.520 To show how, in some way, these kinds of examples 01:03:46.520 --> 01:03:50.520 that I have just given, and many others, are 01:03:50.520 --> 01:03:54.520 merely the tip of the iceberg of a broader 01:03:54.520 --> 01:03:58.520 phenomenon that is occurring in the 19th century 01:03:58.520 --> 01:04:02.520 and in general in Europe, which is the recovery 01:04:02.520 --> 01:04:07.000 and dissemination of the medieval apocalypse. 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.720 And I'm going to give some examples of this process. 01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:16.760 What you can see on screen are different 01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:20.760 19th-century editions of a text called 01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:24.760 Mirabilis Liber, a compilation of medieval 01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:28.760 prophecies that was printed in France, 01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:34.480 in Paris, at the beginning of the 16th century, in 1524. 01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:43.440 It is a text that has hardly been studied, 01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:47.040 probably because, as I say, it is a 01:04:47.040 --> 01:04:50.040 compilation of civil procedure. 01:04:50.080 --> 01:04:52.640 It's a sort of repository of medieval prophecies from a medieval police 01:04:52.640 --> 01:04:53.920 station. 01:04:54.040 --> 01:04:58.320 It's a kind of medieval detritus. 01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:02.320 It is not a treatise, it does not have an argument, 01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:05.640 it is simply collecting medieval subjects 01:05:05.640 --> 01:05:08.640 and putting them here in this text. 01:05:08.640 --> 01:05:12.640 However, it is a text that was fundamental in the 01:05:12.640 --> 01:05:18.520 spread of medieval literature in the 19th century from France to other places. 01:05:19.560 --> 01:05:23.560 The compilation of this Mirabilis Liber was reissued 01:05:23.560 --> 01:05:29.400 for the first time in 1831 and circulated both in France and other countries. 01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:31.520 Attributed to a certain Jean. 01:05:31.520 --> 01:05:33.280 Beat No. 01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:37.040 Which will become other places, other figures. 01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:39.240 In Spain he is called Juan de Guerra. 01:05:39.240 --> 01:05:41.040 In Italy. 01:05:41.040 --> 01:05:43.080 Iron Johannes in England. 01:05:43.080 --> 01:05:44.120 John Garro. 01:05:45.160 --> 01:05:46.000 But it is also. 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:50.120 As I said before, not a made-up author. 01:05:55.480 --> 01:05:58.360 Well, he. 01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:00.600 The text is from Mirabilis Liber, which was republished during this period of the 01:06:00.600 --> 01:06:01.720 19th century. 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:06.120 It contains prophecies attributed to all these medieval figures. No. 01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:10.520 To Joachim of Fiore, Catherine of Siena, Vincent 01:06:10.520 --> 01:06:13.520 Ferrer, Thomas Aquinas, John of Roca Tallada. 01:06:13.720 --> 01:06:16.800 The great figures, Some of the great figures of medieval politics 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:19.800 will be collected here and will circulate in the 19th century. 01:06:20.680 --> 01:06:22.640 From these editions onwards. 01:06:22.640 --> 01:06:26.640 As I say, we will even have some text in France 01:06:26.640 --> 01:06:30.640 from 1131 called New Mirabilis, Liber 01:06:30.640 --> 01:06:34.640 mirabilis, Liber, whose author will be, 01:06:34.640 --> 01:06:38.640 uh, a certain Adrian, but they give a 01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:43.360 mysterious figure linked to certain secret societies. 01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:46.360 This is one example. 01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:50.360 Another example of this revival, which I'm referring to in the 01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:54.280 medieval period of the 19th century, are the most popular, best-known Trovas de 01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.280 Bandar. 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:03.520 It is an original Portuguese text from the beginning of the 16th century 01:07:03.520 --> 01:07:06.360 and that is based 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:09.360 in medieval prophecies, specifically. 01:07:10.480 --> 01:07:14.480 Not in these, in the figure of the undercover agent. 01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:17.720 The central figure presented in this text is the commanding troops. 01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:23.200 Although later, from the end of the 16th and 17th centuries, they would 01:07:23.200 --> 01:07:26.640 become a fundamental text for the construction of what has been called 01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:28.360 Sebastianism. 01:07:29.520 --> 01:07:33.520 It is a text that ceased to circulate in the 17th 01:07:33.520 --> 01:07:37.000 century and was collected again, 01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:40.000 rediscovered, and widely disseminated. 01:07:40.560 --> 01:07:42.320 Both Portugal and other places. 01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:46.320 No, some of the editions are made in Barcelona, 01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:50.320 ​​in London, from the 19th century we have a first 01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:54.040 edition in 1809 and from there many others. 01:07:54.040 --> 01:07:58.040 And this recovery of this text will be fundamental for the entire construction 01:07:58.040 --> 01:08:01.760 of what will later become the cultural Sebastiánism, right? 01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:06.320 With some of the examples we see on the screen, 01:08:06.320 --> 01:08:10.320 the plays of Garrett, texts by Manuel Claudio 01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:14.320 Antonio Nobre, Alfonso López Vieira, EH, etc., 01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:18.320 etc. until we get to Pessoa and figures that are 01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:21.800 already, uh, bigger figures, let's say. 01:08:23.040 --> 01:08:26.880 And this process of recovering medieval production in the 19th century was also 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:28.840 reflected in Spain. Wasn't it? 01:08:30.040 --> 01:08:34.040 Here, in some cases, translations of French texts will arrive, such as 01:08:34.040 --> 01:08:38.000 this oracle of about 40 in the following years, which is a collection of ancient 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:40.000 and modern prophecies. 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:41.800 Et cetera et cetera. 01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:45.440 It is originally composed by Luis Orden and translated in Spain. 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.880 It is a text that uses, among other texts from Mirabilis Liber, 01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:53.880 which it combines with other sources, the prophecies, the 01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:57.160 prophecies of events, the most renowned prophecies. 01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:01.520 Also another kind of collection of medieval prophecies that is printed in 01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:03.360 Madrid in versions 49 or these texts. 01:09:03.440 --> 01:09:07.160 The prophecies relating to the current state, the destiny 01:09:07.160 --> 01:09:10.160 of the world, the empire, the Great Monarch, etc. 01:09:13.400 --> 01:09:17.400 I bring here, uh, one of the prologues or the prologue of one of these texts of the 01:09:17.400 --> 01:09:21.400 famous prophecies, collections of the most renowned prophecies, signed by an 01:09:21.400 --> 01:09:25.400 editor, the anonymous editor who declares the following: Convinced that we are 01:09:25.400 --> 01:09:28.040 dispensing a good to our fellow human beings, we give public light a most 01:09:28.040 --> 01:09:29.400 interesting 01:09:29.400 --> 01:09:33.400 collection of prophecies, each more remarkable and extraordinary than the 01:09:33.400 --> 01:09:36.960 last, which will not fail to cite a lively interest in thinking, 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:38.760 philosophical and Christian souls. 01:09:39.400 --> 01:09:43.720 They are useful, he says, to governments, to nations, and also to the historian. 01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:47.920 He tells the writer and the man who, resting from his labors, in his modest 01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:51.840 lodging, spends the evening narrating the miracles that God works in punishment for 01:09:51.840 --> 01:09:53.800 the horrors of humanity. 01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:57.560 So this is a little bit. 01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:01.960 The tone that predominates in this type of text. 01:10:06.040 --> 01:10:10.040 Well, based on all these issues that I 01:10:10.040 --> 01:10:14.040 have tried to present, we can conclude 01:10:14.040 --> 01:10:18.920 with some reflections, and also some questions. 01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:21.640 In a way, no. 01:10:21.640 --> 01:10:25.640 Let's say, uh, with respect to the use of 01:10:25.640 --> 01:10:29.640 medievalism in historical novels, we could 01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:35.560 think about it by analyzing it simply from the point of view of genre, right? 01:10:36.200 --> 01:10:40.200 We could look, for example, for Gothic influences, influences 01:10:40.200 --> 01:10:44.200 of other kinds of issues that would later be reproduced in 01:10:44.200 --> 01:10:47.320 the historical novel up to the present day. 01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:51.920 But in light of this whole context of the recovery of the medieval 01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:55.920 position that I have tried to present, we can also understand the 01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:59.920 use of medieval politics in these historical novels as part of a 01:10:59.920 --> 01:11:03.920 process that is taking place within the cultural field in a more 01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:07.920 general way, in a process in which there is an attempt to use the 01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:11.920 medieval process to construct environments in some way, to 01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:15.920 construct historiography of both the present and the past, ideas 01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:19.480 of the present and, ultimately, political or cultural hegemonies. 01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:26.760 And if we look at it from this other perspective, we 01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:30.760 could propose different readings of historical 01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:34.760 novels than if we did it only from one version, from 01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:38.800 the genre, not from the repetition of certain topics. 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:43.760 A second reflection could also follow the line 01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:47.320 of the political use of the Middle Ages. 01:11:48.400 --> 01:11:51.400 We have talked about liberalism's use of the Middle Ages. 01:11:52.360 --> 01:11:56.360 I have also brought in authors linked to regionalism from before, 01:11:56.360 --> 01:12:00.360 but in this whole world of recovering medieval opposition we 01:12:00.360 --> 01:12:04.120 are also going to have figures of a very different type. 01:12:04.120 --> 01:12:08.120 For example, one of the Spanish authors who most 01:12:08.120 --> 01:12:12.120 and best received and nurtured this dissemination 01:12:12.120 --> 01:12:16.120 of medieval politics was José Domingo Corbacho, 01:12:16.120 --> 01:12:20.640 a priest, a Valencian priest linked to Carlism. 01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:25.960 He was very active in spreading Carlist 01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:28.960 and traditionalist ideas. 01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:32.640 What he called Spanishness, etc., through newspapers like the Catholic one, in 01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:34.520 which. 01:12:34.520 --> 01:12:38.520 In which he secondarily included a section dedicated 01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:42.520 to prophecies in which he reproduced and interpreted 01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:46.280 texts such as the Mirabilis, Liber and many others. 01:12:47.320 --> 01:12:51.320 He also has a treatise in defense of the great monarch, 01:12:51.320 --> 01:12:55.320 which is a more interpretive position on prophecies, 01:12:55.320 --> 01:13:00.240 creating messianic predictions applied to his own time. 01:13:00.240 --> 01:13:02.000 Etc. 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.120 Why am I bringing this up? 01:13:03.120 --> 01:13:08.240 Because I think that in some way, uh. 01:13:09.160 --> 01:13:10.880 This 01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:14.880 This variety, this great heterogeneity of political profiles, 01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:18.880 can make it difficult or more complex to interpret the political 01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:24.400 use of the Middle Ages and specifically medieval polytheism in the 19th century. 01:13:24.400 --> 01:13:28.400 No, at least it complicates things in terms of factions of 01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:32.400 one against the other, because we are seeing that material 01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:35.840 goods are being used by liberals, by regionalists, 01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:38.840 by Carlists and by all kinds of fauna. 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.000 Therefore, perhaps other applications could be sought that are 01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:47.920 not limited solely to the political sphere and are linked to other interests. 01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:50.920 As we have been discussing so far. 01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:54.960 Another point we could make is the importance of editors and, 01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:57.960 in a way, the consideration of editors as authors. 01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:01.960 Not all these figures are recovering the prophecies, 01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:07.240 spreading them, printing them, giving them new contexts in which to function. 01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:11.320 I think they can also be understood in some way as authors, right? 01:14:11.480 --> 01:14:14.160 Or at least give them importance, huh? 01:14:14.160 --> 01:14:18.120 That novelists, surely in what has to do with dissemination, with presence, with 01:14:18.120 --> 01:14:20.120 making the Middle Ages present, right? 01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:27.320 And well, then the last thought is a question that I think has 01:14:27.320 --> 01:14:31.440 also come up, which is in some way the absence of audiences. 01:14:33.200 --> 01:14:37.200 We would have to try—I don't know how to think about doing it—how 01:14:37.200 --> 01:14:41.200 to make the audiences present in all these kinds of explanations, 01:14:41.200 --> 01:14:45.200 because from them we could reconstruct more accurately how all 01:14:45.200 --> 01:14:48.520 these materials work in relation to the public spheres 01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:51.520 that are being built at this moment. 01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:57.480 Regarding the use of emotions and other issues. 01:14:57.480 --> 01:15:00.480 And well, this is a bit of what I wanted to present. 01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:08.680 Well, thank you very much, Pablo. 01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:11.880 Let's make one last attempt with Carlos. 01:15:12.080 --> 01:15:12.920 Good afternoon. 01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:14.800 Good afternoon. 01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:18.800 Can you hear me? Now we can hear you 01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.480 perfectly, huh? Good, good afternoon. 01:15:22.480 --> 01:15:25.160 I would like to pick it up where I left off, which is impossible. 01:15:25.160 --> 01:15:27.240 First of all, I apologize. Right? 01:15:27.240 --> 01:15:28.200 The relationship with the internet. 01:15:28.200 --> 01:15:31.080 I don't know what the problem was, but it seems he's already recovering. 01:15:31.080 --> 01:15:32.600 Any problems? I'll tell you about it. 01:15:32.600 --> 01:15:33.120 Perfect. 01:15:33.120 --> 01:15:36.800 I was saying that the figure of Umberto Eco and his work are very well known. 01:15:36.800 --> 01:15:40.800 We simply provided some context and mentioned the awarding of the Prince 01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:44.040 of Asturias Award for Humanities and Communication in 2000. 01:15:44.080 --> 01:15:48.080 The second attempt, highlighted by teaching and research career, 01:15:48.080 --> 01:15:52.080 especially by that performance, the Chair of Semiotics at the 01:15:52.080 --> 01:15:56.080 corresponding University in Italy, and above all by the commitment, 01:15:56.080 --> 01:16:00.080 by the ethical commitment, is not a character who was very committed 01:16:00.080 --> 01:16:04.200 from an ethical point of view to all the issues to analyze. 01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:08.800 And a second point of connection between ECO and Asturias has to 01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:13.720 do with the translator, the Argentinian, the Buenos Aires poet and translator. 01:16:13.920 --> 01:16:17.560 Ricardo de Acuerdo is an author who is linked to Asturias for 01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:20.560 a reason, although he was born in Buenos Aires. 01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:24.560 He was based in Spain, in Barcelona, ​​for decades and in recent 01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:28.560 years he has lived and worked as a translator, but above all, also as 01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:32.200 a poet with philosophical traits in Gijón, in Asturias, a 01:16:32.200 --> 01:16:35.200 place he used to come to before that residence in Gijón. 01:16:35.200 --> 01:16:39.200 Plenty of time during the summers to give some lectures, to recite 01:16:39.200 --> 01:16:43.200 verses, present poems, etc. A third point of connection would be 01:16:43.200 --> 01:16:47.200 another fundamental figure linked to the Spanish translation of 01:16:47.200 --> 01:16:51.200 the name of the rose, a vehicle that is the now deceased Tomás de Tomás 01:16:51.200 --> 01:16:55.200 de la Asunción, Recio García or simply Tomás Recio, a very important 01:16:55.200 --> 01:16:59.680 figure in the Asturian cultural scene of the second half of the 20th century. 01:16:59.920 --> 01:17:02.480 He is an author who was not born in Asturias, he was born in Soria, but he 01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:03.760 spent 01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:06.760 a good part of his teaching and research career in Oviedo. 01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:10.760 Specifically, he was a professor of Latin and director of the former male 01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:14.560 and female institutes of Oviedo, that is, the Alfonso Segundo and the Instituto de 01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:16.480 acuerdo a de Oviedo. 01:17:16.480 --> 01:17:20.480 Currently, he is an author who has translated many Latin texts, who has 01:17:20.480 --> 01:17:24.480 prepared educational manuals, who has coordinated publishing series 01:17:24.480 --> 01:17:28.480 of translations, especially the Lumen series in Gredos, etc., and who 01:17:28.480 --> 01:17:32.480 is the translator, as I say, Soriano, but an adopted son of Oviedo, is a 01:17:32.480 --> 01:17:36.480 translator of Latin texts, both individual words and texts, aphorisms, 01:17:36.480 --> 01:17:40.480 entire paragraphs, etc. That is to say, the three great names of the 01:17:40.480 --> 01:17:44.480 novel: the writer, the translator of the work into Spanish, and the 01:17:44.480 --> 01:17:47.680 translator of the Latin texts have Asturian ties. 01:17:48.160 --> 01:17:51.720 Fourthly, in the PowerPoint that Antonio Sevilla sends him. 01:17:51.760 --> 01:17:54.600 No, unfortunately we cannot make it available due to technical issues. 01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:58.600 He mentioned a leading magazine in the Asturian literary and 01:17:58.600 --> 01:18:02.080 cultural scene of the 1980s, which is Cuadernos del Norte. 01:18:02.440 --> 01:18:06.440 It was financed by the Savings Bank of Asturias, it was directed 01:18:06.440 --> 01:18:10.440 by the now deceased Juan Cueto Alas and in issue number 14, 01:18:10.440 --> 01:18:14.440 corresponding to the year 82, that year in which Lumen, in 01:18:14.440 --> 01:18:18.440 Barcelona, ​​translated Eco's text into Spanish, it did not 01:18:18.440 --> 01:18:21.880 include a monograph, but it did include a fairly 01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:24.880 extensive dossier on Eco and on the subject of Umberto Eco. 01:18:24.880 --> 01:18:28.880 It includes, on the one hand, what would be a bit of a prologue, the introductory 01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:32.880 part of the novel and the pine tree, a chapter and on the other hand, an article 01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:36.560 of his on one of his topics of interest which would be, uh. 01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:40.560 Well, Beatus of Liébana, regarding the commentary on the Apocalypse of 01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:44.200 Saint John and everything related to the Parousia, the end times 01:18:44.200 --> 01:18:47.200 and the matter, I don't know if you are listening to me. 01:18:48.040 --> 01:18:51.040 Yes, yes, now perfectly. Okay, fine. 01:18:51.200 --> 01:18:54.360 I mention that the Cuadernos del Norte number 14 is not a monograph, but one 01:18:54.360 --> 01:18:55.960 issue is quite extensive. 01:18:56.360 --> 01:18:58.680 It contains what would be, well, the introduction and first chapter of The 01:18:58.680 --> 01:18:59.880 Name of the Rose. 01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:03.880 The same year that the translation and study of one of the themes fundamentally 01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:07.880 loved by Eco was given, which was, well, everything related to the Apocalypse 01:19:07.880 --> 01:19:11.200 of Saint John and everything related to the Parousia at the end 01:19:11.200 --> 01:19:14.200 of times, questions of millenarianism, etc. 01:19:14.400 --> 01:19:18.360 Consider that Eco had a deep friendship with Fran, his beloved FNR. The whole 01:19:18.360 --> 01:19:21.360 subject of the bibliography was very much connected. 01:19:21.400 --> 01:19:25.400 This same issue of the magazine, which I call a non-monographic dossier, 01:19:25.400 --> 01:19:29.400 contains four other texts by specialists, writers, professors of Literature 01:19:29.400 --> 01:19:33.680 from the University of Vigo, and other institutions such as Carmen Bobes. 01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:37.680 To elaborate a bit on the contents, plot, storyline, and characters 01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:41.680 of this novel, the point of connection would be an article that the now 01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:45.680 retired professor, Professor of Aesthetics at Ohio University, 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:49.680 Isabel Álvarez, had published in other magazines, in this case from 01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:53.680 the 90s, with the same practical reason, a magazine directed by 01:19:53.680 --> 01:19:57.320 Fernando Savater, the philosopher in which they collaborated. 01:19:57.320 --> 01:20:01.320 Well, not only philosophers, but also economists, sociologists, historians, 01:20:01.320 --> 01:20:04.480 and so on. It's not a well-known and prestigious magazine either. 01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:08.040 And he published a four-page article, but with the layout and scope typical of the 01:20:08.040 --> 01:20:09.760 magazine. 01:20:09.760 --> 01:20:13.760 Obviously, the extension is longer, entitled The Echo That Does Not 01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:16.840 Cease, where I analyzed the motive in a rather direct way. 01:20:16.840 --> 01:20:20.840 The reason for the success of Eco's novels was already evident in 01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:24.840 this first one, The Rose of 80, and he had recently published his 01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:28.840 second historical novel, Foucault's Pendulum. A seventh 01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:32.840 possibility for linking Asturias with Eco's novel is the fact that 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:37.000 a German group put it in PowerPoint because the name is unpronounceable. 01:20:37.360 --> 01:20:41.360 A fairly successful German folk metal group from recent years, basically 01:20:41.360 --> 01:20:44.920 in Covadonga, in the incomparable setting of the Basilica of Cangas de Onís of the 01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:46.720 Royal Site. 01:20:46.720 --> 01:20:50.120 When I felt like going to Onís, I had recorded a music video on the PowerPoint, 01:20:50.120 --> 01:20:53.120 and I linked to the link in case there was time to watch it. 01:20:53.120 --> 01:20:56.360 It's not fair where that piece of music was titled. 01:20:56.360 --> 01:20:59.360 Precisely Bernabé Barros is the name of the Rose. 01:20:59.360 --> 01:21:00.320 OK. 01:21:00.320 --> 01:21:04.320 Another possibility, in 8th place, would be the fact that the 01:21:04.320 --> 01:21:08.320 current tourist parador of Cangas de Onís, which corresponds 01:21:08.320 --> 01:21:12.320 to the building and grounds of the old Benedictine monastery of 01:21:12.320 --> 01:21:16.320 San Pedro de Villanueva for almost 40 years, almost daily 01:21:16.320 --> 01:21:20.320 reproduces every day or five times a day the film adaptation of 01:21:20.320 --> 01:21:24.320 Jaca, not of the novel by Eco and includes in the visits for those 01:21:24.320 --> 01:21:28.320 people who are tourists or interested, a series of dramatizations 01:21:28.320 --> 01:21:32.320 of medieval and holy nature with respect to what would be a little 01:21:32.320 --> 01:21:37.360 explanation of the monastery, the places, the history, the legends, etc., etc. 01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:40.040 I insist that the points of contact between the novel, I mean with Asturias, 01:21:40.040 --> 01:21:41.200 are many. 01:21:41.200 --> 01:21:44.440 Here I simply wanted to establish some specific milestones. 01:21:45.160 --> 01:21:49.160 Moreover, if we reread, reread, reread the novel again and again, we 01:21:49.160 --> 01:21:53.160 will see that, for example, when the protagonists Guillermo de Vázquez 01:21:53.160 --> 01:21:57.160 and the novice only manage to penetrate the library and describe some 01:21:57.160 --> 01:22:01.320 of the codices, very close references appear among those pieces. 01:22:01.480 --> 01:22:05.720 For example, to the historiographical cycle of the Asturian chronicles. 01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:08.840 That commentary by Beatus on the Apocalypse, Saint John 01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:11.840 who had so much influence, Romanesque art, etc., etc. 01:22:12.400 --> 01:22:15.280 I don't want to take up too much time, I simply wanted, as I say, to establish 01:22:15.280 --> 01:22:16.760 some milestones. 01:22:16.760 --> 01:22:19.920 I insist, due to technical issues, the PowerPoint cannot be viewed there alone. 01:22:20.440 --> 01:22:21.480 Antonio. 01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:23.680 And in that PowerPoint, well, collected. 01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:27.680 So, there were covers, images, and even several links, several 01:22:27.680 --> 01:22:31.680 links to the integrated ceremony of the Prince of Asturias Awards 01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:35.680 of 2000, to a news report on Spanish Radio and Television about 01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:39.680 Eco's death in 2016, in which those images of him receiving the 01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:44.920 Prince of Asturias Award in recognition of his musical career were shown again. 01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:49.440 No, I was with that German folk metal group that had that song, The Name 01:22:49.440 --> 01:22:52.680 of the Rose in the Comparable Marco de Covadonga, etc., 01:22:52.680 --> 01:22:55.680 and then, well, links to the different articles. 01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:58.880 Some people may be interested in the text-to-PDF link for those certain 01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:00.520 magazines. 01:23:01.280 --> 01:23:04.720 I think that for this and other reasons it's worth pointing out that 01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:07.720 dependence, that close link between Eco and Asturias, don't you? 01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:11.960 The author, who will also publish texts in these Northern Notebooks 01:23:11.960 --> 01:23:16.640 in time, according to the translator, the translator of the Latin texts. 01:23:16.880 --> 01:23:20.880 And finally, which I almost forgot, there is an Asturian writer 01:23:20.880 --> 01:23:24.880 and university professor who, a few years after the publication 01:23:24.880 --> 01:23:28.880 of Xavier Frías Conde's novel, published a small book in Asturian, 01:23:28.880 --> 01:23:32.880 those in Spanish, where he made a parody of the plot, the characters 01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:37.320 and all the aspects included in Eco's novel, A Novel That Is Enormous. 01:23:37.320 --> 01:23:40.960 It's not a detective novel, it's a historical novel, it's a philosophical 01:23:40.960 --> 01:23:42.800 novel, it's an artistic novel, etc., etc. 01:23:43.120 --> 01:23:46.680 I don't want to go on any longer, I just want to say thank you and apologize again 01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:48.480 for the technical problems. 01:23:48.480 --> 01:23:49.160 Thank you so much. 01:23:55.720 --> 01:23:58.360 Thank you so much, Carlos. 01:23:58.360 --> 01:24:02.080 These things happen with hybrid conferences; sometimes the 01:24:02.080 --> 01:24:05.080 connection just doesn't work well, so don't worry at all. 01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:08.600 Thank you so much for your input. 01:24:08.600 --> 01:24:11.720 I don't know if there are any questions, comments, 01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:14.720 or reflections, but what has happened to me... 01:24:15.080 --> 01:24:18.920 Did you like it a lot? 01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:22.920 It's an approach that goes beyond where we 01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:28.520 usually go, those of us who are starting out in politics, right? 01:24:28.520 --> 01:24:30.440 I mean, 01:24:30.440 --> 01:24:34.440 Does that mean that in the 19th Middle Ages 01:24:34.440 --> 01:24:38.680 it was also used with others, with others? 01:24:40.240 --> 01:24:42.080 For other purposes or not? 01:24:42.080 --> 01:24:43.120 That's the question. 01:24:43.120 --> 01:24:46.120 Is there a non-political use of the 01:24:46.120 --> 01:24:49.120 Middle Ages in the 19th century? 01:24:49.120 --> 01:24:52.760 What you have suggested goes in that direction. 01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:54.320 Yes, that's the question. 01:24:54.320 --> 01:24:56.320 I ask the questions and that's it. 01:24:56.320 --> 01:24:57.960 Lily 01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:02.080 I wanted to ask you something, okay? 01:25:02.080 --> 01:25:06.080 The historiography of the 20th and 21st centuries is 01:25:06.080 --> 01:25:11.360 steeped in and full of talk about, that is, it makes history of women, right? 01:25:11.360 --> 01:25:16.800 It is a historiographical renewal that represents a new history. 01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:20.800 Could you say that this novel is history? Could you 01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:24.680 say that this author is writing women's history? 01:25:25.120 --> 01:25:28.840 Do you think we could 01:25:28.840 --> 01:25:31.840 register this work? 01:25:32.320 --> 01:25:37.840 In that historiographical current, eh? 01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:40.840 And then another question, huh? 01:25:41.120 --> 01:25:46.760 I think the three ladies who have appointed the three queens are working. 01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:48.800 I think they're working at the same time, right? 01:25:48.800 --> 01:25:50.640 Or should I ask, are they working at the same time? 01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:54.440 So, is Urraca really a magpie, or is she 01:25:54.440 --> 01:25:57.440 Isabel II in the writer's head? 01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:01.280 and professor 01:26:01.280 --> 01:26:04.880 Pablo, huh? 01:26:06.760 --> 01:26:09.720 Okay, uh, uh. 01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:12.720 I see a certain disconnect between everything he's said. No. 01:26:12.760 --> 01:26:15.360 Hey, Novel, hey? 01:26:15.360 --> 01:26:17.000 Prophecies. 01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:18.200 A kind of. 01:26:18.200 --> 01:26:21.280 Have you also been infected by the debris? 01:26:21.280 --> 01:26:24.280 No. Huh? 01:26:25.280 --> 01:26:27.640 And I want to ask him, uh. 01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:30.640 Mmm. That text from the. 01:26:30.920 --> 01:26:34.160 That one. That compilation of prophecies. 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:38.640 Huh? I don't know. It was translated into Spanish. 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:41.960 It wasn't translated, huh. 01:26:43.320 --> 01:26:45.480 Mmm mmm. Eh. 01:26:45.480 --> 01:26:48.520 What's the reason for grouping everything together and presenting it like this, 01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:50.080 huh? 01:26:50.280 --> 01:26:53.520 And what does that have to do with, with, 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:56.520 with, with the medieval period? 01:26:56.520 --> 01:27:00.520 So, in the Middle Ages, all those prophecies were separate, 01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:05.960 and if they were put together there, and who was that invented author? 01:27:06.440 --> 01:27:10.440 No? Why is there a fictional author who's 01:27:10.440 --> 01:27:15.480 an invention of the editor? What's behind all that? 01:27:15.480 --> 01:27:19.480 Because I find it very significant, 01:27:19.480 --> 01:27:22.640 and above all, I think so. 01:27:22.640 --> 01:27:25.640 If you say that no work has been done, it seems to me 01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:28.640 that at least you should answer a couple of questions. 01:27:28.640 --> 01:27:29.880 So what happens? 01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:31.000 I didn't quite understand it. 01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:34.600 It had a transposition in Portugal, just like in France, and 01:27:34.600 --> 01:27:37.600 they translated it into Portugal and nothing more. 01:27:43.040 --> 01:27:45.320 Shall I start, then? 01:27:45.320 --> 01:27:49.320 Well, thank you very much for the question, 01:27:49.320 --> 01:27:53.320 and if I went on longer than expected before, 01:27:53.320 --> 01:27:56.960 the answer would take even longer, but 01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:59.960 I've left that first part of 01:28:01.200 --> 01:28:04.040 from the EH 01:28:04.040 --> 01:28:08.040 of cultivation of the genre in the 01:28:08.040 --> 01:28:12.040 historical subgenre in English 01:28:12.040 --> 01:28:16.800 literature and then move to France. 01:28:17.240 --> 01:28:21.240 So it's true that the Middle Ages were 01:28:21.240 --> 01:28:25.240 first the setting, eh, that shaped that 01:28:25.240 --> 01:28:28.600 novel, that Gothic novel, eh? 01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:32.920 Obviously, it also had a political undertone in its 01:28:32.920 --> 01:28:36.920 origins, but once the formula crosses those boundaries 01:28:36.920 --> 01:28:40.920 and adapts to the political, social, literary, and 01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:44.920 economic circumstances of the country that adopts 01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:48.920 it, it also has to pass through that filter of adapting, 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:54.560 of adjusting to the new country and the new aesthetic. Right? 01:28:54.560 --> 01:28:58.760 So, initially, all the translations were already done, right? 01:28:59.600 --> 01:29:02.600 Many of them are located, huh? 01:29:02.920 --> 01:29:06.920 The characters were in a time and place 01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:12.520 that was generally medieval and Spanish, right? 01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:14.120 So, of course, huh? 01:29:14.120 --> 01:29:18.120 It had political undertones that 01:29:18.120 --> 01:29:22.120 saved the translations and that 01:29:22.120 --> 01:29:26.120 later became pure scenery to 01:29:26.120 --> 01:29:31.160 accompany the scenes of both horror and terror. 01:29:31.520 --> 01:29:34.680 It's true that the initial space-time 01:29:34.680 --> 01:29:37.680 chronology was later surpassed, right? 01:29:37.760 --> 01:29:41.760 Medieval and Spanish or Mediterranean 01:29:41.760 --> 01:29:45.760 and passed to A1A1 present, to a 01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:48.960 present past, that is, to a 01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:51.960 contemporaneity. 01:29:52.560 --> 01:29:54.800 And they were already in place, huh? 01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:58.440 In that reality of the time of the late 18th 01:29:58.440 --> 01:30:01.440 or early 19th century, especially. 01:30:02.160 --> 01:30:06.160 Then that scenery becomes a character, but 01:30:06.160 --> 01:30:10.160 a character, eh, endowed with elements of 01:30:10.160 --> 01:30:13.720 terror in this case, that haunted the 01:30:13.720 --> 01:30:16.720 characters and enveloped them. 01:30:16.840 --> 01:30:20.840 That atmosphere of disturbance, 01:30:20.840 --> 01:30:26.600 a sublime, ominous atmosphere, etc. 01:30:27.040 --> 01:30:31.040 I don't know if Rafael has answered you 01:30:31.040 --> 01:30:36.200 then, with the idea that in the Middle Ages 19. 01:30:38.240 --> 01:30:42.240 Sure, I think, I think, uh, from my, my lack of 01:30:42.240 --> 01:30:46.240 knowledge with what, with your, with your 01:30:46.240 --> 01:30:49.480 perspective, sure, is what we know, uh? 01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:53.640 I think there's an issue here, 01:30:53.640 --> 01:30:57.720 a kind of consensus, right? 01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:01.760 Where the Middle Ages are grouped only 01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:05.760 for the retirement of politics, history 01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:09.760 and things like this, well, before that 01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:14.680 it doesn't stop in other areas, of course. 01:31:15.120 --> 01:31:16.800 Studies 01:31:16.800 --> 01:31:19.760 mainly with other perspectives. 01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:23.760 I think that has as much value 01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:27.760 for me as what can't be written, 01:31:27.760 --> 01:31:32.880 or perhaps only for young people, like 01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:35.360 something. 01:31:35.360 --> 01:31:39.360 Of course, obviously it could be used if we 01:31:39.360 --> 01:31:43.360 think about the authors, well, recently I'm 01:31:43.360 --> 01:31:47.360 doing a study with a colleague who's at the 01:31:47.360 --> 01:31:51.360 University of León, about Agustín Pérez 01:31:51.360 --> 01:31:55.360 Zaragoza, who is perhaps the one most people 01:31:55.360 --> 01:31:59.360 know, well, he was civil governor, we've 01:31:59.360 --> 01:32:03.360 discovered that he was civil governor during 01:32:03.360 --> 01:32:07.360 the time of Maria Cristina, and he dedicated 01:32:07.360 --> 01:32:11.360 himself to the work, but well, there will be 01:32:11.360 --> 01:32:15.360 some political interest, of course, but the 01:32:15.360 --> 01:32:19.360 purely literary interest of searching, I 01:32:19.360 --> 01:32:22.760 think, transcends that political interest. 01:32:23.160 --> 01:32:27.520 There was a taste, at least that's the point of view I start from. 01:32:28.040 --> 01:32:32.040 There was a taste that went beyond those limits 01:32:32.040 --> 01:32:36.040 and became a literary product more than a political 01:32:36.040 --> 01:32:41.480 one, at least in those works that are partly a shadow, a big lie. 01:32:41.480 --> 01:32:45.480 Because if Azucena also studies those novels 01:32:45.480 --> 01:32:49.480 here, they all come under the label of historical 01:32:49.480 --> 01:32:53.720 novel, which I have argued they are not. 01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:57.720 But no, I don't have a rigid stance that I'm going 01:32:57.720 --> 01:33:01.720 to defend above all else, based on the idea that 01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:05.320 fear is what underpins the discourse. 01:33:05.840 --> 01:33:09.840 So you think the Middle Ages in this 01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:15.040 case is a suitable setting for generating terror? 01:33:16.440 --> 01:33:20.440 That's how the originals, the Goths, created it, also from a 01:33:20.440 --> 01:33:24.600 perspective of superiority, that we've finished with this. 01:33:24.600 --> 01:33:27.280 Everything in that section has been studied. I didn't study it. 01:33:27.280 --> 01:33:27.960 I studied. 01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:31.960 It is studied in the theorists of Gothic, riots, 01:33:31.960 --> 01:33:35.960 etc. Eh, that it was a situation of privilege, 01:33:35.960 --> 01:33:39.960 that had that social class that saw how it was 01:33:39.960 --> 01:33:43.800 the end of one era, another was beginning. 01:33:43.880 --> 01:33:47.880 I wanted to bring back those ancient periods in 01:33:47.880 --> 01:33:51.320 which there were conventions and society 01:33:51.320 --> 01:33:54.320 was established in a certain way. 01:33:54.560 --> 01:33:56.080 That's how it all started. 01:33:56.080 --> 01:33:57.960 Then, of course, it can't be maintained. 01:33:57.960 --> 01:34:03.240 Is that why theorists say that the Gothic novel is English, huh? 01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:07.760 In, of, of everything, from all points of view. 01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:11.760 Because it is deeply nationalist, of course, 01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:15.760 once it explodes with the number of novels that 01:34:15.760 --> 01:34:19.760 were produced in England, Ireland, the area, 01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:23.760 well, it loses those initial connotations 01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:27.760 because it could not be defended in that way either 01:34:27.760 --> 01:34:31.760 in France, which practically reached that point, 01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:35.760 and much less in Spain when they attacked what 01:34:35.760 --> 01:34:39.640 was essentially Spanish, beyond the fact that 01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.640 some were anti-inquisitorial, etc. 01:34:47.560 --> 01:34:50.560 Uh, uh. In. 01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:54.960 Hey, your book, No Robotics. 01:34:55.640 --> 01:34:58.640 Is that a book? 01:34:58.760 --> 01:35:04.080 It has to do with a relationship between the creators. 01:35:06.920 --> 01:35:09.520 And actors are how. 01:35:09.520 --> 01:35:12.520 How has this been received? 01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:16.720 This suffering? 01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:20.320 Because of course, we are also present. 01:35:21.080 --> 01:35:25.080 And let's forget about political correctness, 01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:29.760 because it depends on the school that received it. 01:35:30.240 --> 01:35:34.240 Of course, it's been a bit controversial 01:35:34.240 --> 01:35:38.240 because what I've really tried to do is, 01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:42.240 uh, contradict the claims in the manuals 01:35:42.240 --> 01:35:46.040 that there was no Gothic novel in Spain. 01:35:46.440 --> 01:35:50.360 That, first of all, is not real and it is obvious that it is not real. 01:35:50.360 --> 01:35:52.920 But of course, I think it should be done. 01:35:52.920 --> 01:35:58.720 No, I'm not accusing anyone, it's simply due to a lack of knowledge. 01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:02.000 In the end, as can happen to all of us if we venture into other worlds. 01:36:02.720 --> 01:36:08.040 And of course, if you define the Gothic novel as an English product, eh? 01:36:08.120 --> 01:36:11.720 And then you say, on the other hand, that in Spain there was none but the funeral 01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:13.520 gallery. 01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:17.320 That clashes with every aspect of the funeral gallery. 01:36:17.320 --> 01:36:18.320 It's a translation. 01:36:18.320 --> 01:36:23.320 It was written as a parody of the genre in France. 01:36:23.320 --> 01:36:28.600 In other words, it's based on a lack of knowledge. 01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:32.600 But of course, there are several aspects of reception 01:36:32.600 --> 01:36:36.600 there, those of the fantasy genre, where I come from 01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:40.600 now, from the other side of the Complutense, which 01:36:40.600 --> 01:36:46.400 gave me greetings for you and from and from and from the side of the 19, eh? 01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:52.400 And the acceptance has been the best on the side of cultural studies. 01:36:52.400 --> 01:36:56.400 More so in the United States or England, where they 01:36:56.400 --> 01:36:59.840 noticed that a study was lacking in Spain, huh? 01:36:59.840 --> 01:37:03.480 But in the 01:37:03.520 --> 01:37:07.520 The world of the 19 has always treated me very well, but it is true 01:37:07.520 --> 01:37:11.120 that they have remained just that, in some very bad novels. 01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:14.680 No? We're no longer talking about quality. 01:37:14.680 --> 01:37:18.680 I won't go into the specifics there. 01:37:18.680 --> 01:37:22.680 But yes, I do feel that it's a work 01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:27.920 that has had an interesting reception. 01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:31.880 At least I finished the edition because of those outfits. 01:37:31.880 --> 01:37:34.880 The new one. 01:37:35.240 --> 01:37:36.920 And I don't know if I've answered you. 01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:39.920 If you want, I can answer whatever you want later. 01:37:41.920 --> 01:37:45.920 I think it depends a bit on whether the women's movement exists 01:37:45.920 --> 01:37:49.920 or not, or on how you understand the historical novel. If, 01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:53.920 for example, I understand it as part of historiography, as 01:37:53.920 --> 01:37:57.920 another link in the chain, then you could say it's about women, 01:37:57.920 --> 01:38:01.920 but it would be a starting point, and in any case, not women's 01:38:01.920 --> 01:38:04.920 history, but gender history, right? 01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:08.840 But it is very interesting to see how in the 19th century, female figures from the 01:38:08.840 --> 01:38:10.840 Middle Ages were already being valued. 01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:16.840 And uh, I'll take this opportunity to answer 01:38:16.840 --> 01:38:20.840 1/2 because, mmm, I don't know if the author 01:38:20.840 --> 01:38:24.840 had the 19th-century queens in mind because 01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:28.840 I'm not the author, but mmm I analyzed it as 01:38:28.840 --> 01:38:32.840 if they did, that Urraca is a reflection of 01:38:32.840 --> 01:38:36.840 both of them, the two powerful female figures 01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:40.840 at that time, Maria Cristina de Borbón and 01:38:40.840 --> 01:38:43.840 Isabel II, and then 01:38:45.440 --> 01:38:47.760 I don't know 01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:49.760 a bit 01:38:49.760 --> 01:38:55.080 taking the lead in the representation. 01:38:55.080 --> 01:38:59.080 The political use of the Middle Ages in novels: In 01:38:59.080 --> 01:39:03.080 many of them there is indeed a political use, but 01:39:03.080 --> 01:39:07.080 at the same time there is also an aesthetic 01:39:07.080 --> 01:39:10.120 representation of the Middle Ages, 01:39:10.120 --> 01:39:13.120 often through the exoticism of the Arabs. 01:39:14.080 --> 01:39:18.160 So I think it's also important to mention that, and that's it. 01:39:20.160 --> 01:39:20.720 Okay. 01:39:20.720 --> 01:39:23.720 Let's see. 01:39:24.640 --> 01:39:25.480 The different functions. 01:39:25.480 --> 01:39:28.480 Let's see first. 01:39:28.760 --> 01:39:32.200 It is if everything is disconnected, because in. 01:39:34.320 --> 01:39:35.120 They are essentially things. 01:39:35.120 --> 01:39:37.120 Well, in principle, these are things that are disconnected. 01:39:37.120 --> 01:39:40.480 No, I mean, there's no apparent connection 01:39:40.480 --> 01:39:43.480 between the novels and the texts. 01:39:43.480 --> 01:39:46.040 These other texts that I've presented, right? 01:39:46.040 --> 01:39:49.520 As far as I know, the novels are not directly based on those texts. 01:39:50.160 --> 01:39:54.160 What I was trying to do was suggest that these two things were happening 01:39:54.160 --> 01:39:58.160 at the same time, and that perhaps we can think about them together 01:39:58.160 --> 01:40:02.400 and how that can give us another perspective, perhaps on novels. 01:40:03.200 --> 01:40:06.480 That was the intention, huh? 01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:11.760 Regarding the text itself, this is the Mirabilis book I'm talking about. 01:40:12.280 --> 01:40:15.640 Let's see, the materials that make it up were already 01:40:15.640 --> 01:40:18.640 brought together at the end of the media. 01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:19.800 This is a compilation. 01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:23.640 At the end of the media, different compilations of prophecies were created, 01:40:23.640 --> 01:40:25.560 some handwritten, others printed. 01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:28.040 This is one that was printed. 01:40:28.040 --> 01:40:31.080 Therefore, at that moment a series of materials come together. 01:40:31.080 --> 01:40:34.840 Some were Joaquín and others Roca, and others, well, other types of 01:40:34.840 --> 01:40:37.840 authors, other types of authors that were circulating. 01:40:37.960 --> 01:40:41.200 A compilation is put together and printed, in principle, on the 16th. 01:40:43.880 --> 01:40:47.840 That compilation, the one from the 16th, has not been studied. 01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:51.840 There is an article that studies it, and what has certainly 01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:55.840 not been studied by either side is the subsequent dissemination 01:40:55.840 --> 01:40:59.840 of that text, which has been extensive, especially in 19, 01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:03.280 in which we have French sections and from there it 01:41:03.280 --> 01:41:06.280 circulates in other parts of Europe. 01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:12.560 And it circulates Here it is among the author, sometimes, sometimes 01:41:12.560 --> 01:41:16.120 not, sometimes attributed to this author who is called or is called Yan de 01:41:16.120 --> 01:41:17.920 bachiller. 01:41:17.920 --> 01:41:21.920 Juan Hierro, Claro, depending on how authors from different 01:41:21.920 --> 01:41:26.560 geographical areas refer to the text to call it one thing or another, right? 01:41:27.640 --> 01:41:29.200 I don't tire myself out there. 01:41:29.200 --> 01:41:30.520 Well, all of this. 01:41:30.520 --> 01:41:34.320 In principle, he is an author invented by the editor. 01:41:34.600 --> 01:41:37.240 Probably so, or taken from somewhere. 01:41:37.240 --> 01:41:40.760 That author is certainly not in the original compilation of the 16th author 01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:42.520 who appears in the 19th. 01:41:44.560 --> 01:41:47.640 It was translated 01:41:47.640 --> 01:41:51.640 It was not fully translated into Spanish, but since 01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:55.640 it was known, and some Spanish authors quoted it, 01:41:55.640 --> 01:41:59.920 they sometimes took fragments and translated them. 01:42:00.040 --> 01:42:05.440 This is what happens, for example, with this man that José Domingo mentioned. 01:42:05.440 --> 01:42:09.160 He collects fragments, puts them in his newspaper, and 01:42:09.160 --> 01:42:12.160 translates them from that text and others as well. 01:42:12.160 --> 01:42:15.160 It's not that this text is a panacea. 01:42:18.120 --> 01:42:22.120 In Portugal, what I presented there is not, in principle, related 01:42:22.120 --> 01:42:26.120 to the text of a certain booklet that I presented there as another 01:42:26.120 --> 01:42:29.440 independent example; the Mirabilis liber is about 01:42:29.440 --> 01:42:32.440 the recovery of the troops of Bandar. Right? 01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:36.920 And those reissues that the 19 volumes have are 01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:40.960 fundamental for everything that is built in the 19 later. 01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:45.760 Regarding Sebastián Ismo in culture in general, right? But it 01:42:45.760 --> 01:42:49.760 was also a well-known text in Portugal, and we have Portuguese 01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:52.880 authors who also use it, and I think that says it all. 01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:57.560 Um, I wanted to ask the first speaker, if I may, a question as a specialist in 01:42:57.560 --> 01:42:59.400 Gothic novels. 01:42:59.480 --> 01:43:03.480 Well, I'm 51 years old, but when I was younger, in my early twenties 01:43:03.480 --> 01:43:07.480 or thirties, I really enjoyed reading Gothic novels and I wanted 01:43:07.480 --> 01:43:11.000 to know if there was a question from the specialists in 01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:14.000 the Spanish scene of the 19th century. 01:43:14.160 --> 01:43:16.560 Is there anything comparable to Maci? 01:43:16.560 --> 01:43:20.560 Luis El monje, William Beck, Formate, the mature 01:43:20.560 --> 01:43:24.560 monk, Andraste's Italian-style works, Mysteries, 01:43:24.560 --> 01:43:28.560 Rodolfo, etc. What authors and works could you 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:31.760 recommend to a reader who is not a specialist? 01:43:34.160 --> 01:43:36.320 Can you hear me, Carlos? 01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:36.600 Perfect. 01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:39.920 I'm saying this very quickly because we're way over time. Right? 01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:44.880 Uh. From the works of Pascual Pérez y 01:43:44.880 --> 01:43:47.880 Rodríguez, uh, which you can consult. 01:43:47.880 --> 01:43:49.960 I think they're good. 01:43:49.960 --> 01:43:53.960 I think on the internet, uh, The 01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:57.840 Bloody Urn or The Gothic Tower. 01:43:58.400 --> 01:44:02.120 Well, the title is longer, but to keep you in mind those 01:44:02.120 --> 01:44:05.120 two, the bloody urn or the gothic tower. 01:44:05.480 --> 01:44:09.480 Although I have to say that defending this line of thought is also 01:44:09.480 --> 01:44:13.120 something that some people defended back in the day, eh, 01:44:13.160 --> 01:44:16.160 From the 19th, huh? 01:44:17.160 --> 01:44:21.160 I also consider that the translations could be understood 01:44:21.160 --> 01:44:26.760 as original because they are very far removed from the original text, right? 01:44:26.760 --> 01:44:29.760 And for example, this one. 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:34.000 We had a translation by the monk in 1820 and 01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:38.000 another by the abbess, which at that time 01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:42.000 were banned in their country of origin and 01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:47.000 circulated here during the Liberal Triennium. 01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:49.280 So, well, that too. 01:44:49.280 --> 01:44:52.720 But if you want to go, I'd tell you the novel, right? 01:44:52.760 --> 01:44:57.120 The funereal gallery of specters and bloodied shadows. 01:44:57.120 --> 01:45:00.440 But it is the one that is best known. 01:45:00.440 --> 01:45:02.760 It could be, but those are just stories. 01:45:05.400 --> 01:45:08.000 If I may ask one more question 01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:10.400 If I'm no longer a burden to you. 01:45:10.400 --> 01:45:11.440 Yes, of course, go ahead. 01:45:11.440 --> 01:45:14.320 I would like to ask one more question. 01:45:14.320 --> 01:45:16.280 Yes, uh, 01:45:16.280 --> 01:45:17.680 The novel by Umberto Eco. 01:45:17.680 --> 01:45:21.680 The Name of the Rose has been described as a historical novel, aptly a 01:45:21.680 --> 01:45:25.440 detective novel, a philosophical novel, etc. A Gothic novel in the strict sense, 01:45:25.440 --> 01:45:27.360 The Name of the Rose. 01:45:27.360 --> 01:45:30.360 Or can some nuance be established? 01:45:30.560 --> 01:45:34.560 Are you asking me questions that make it clear I'm 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:38.240 addressing a different audience than usual? 01:45:39.840 --> 01:45:42.840 eh, eh? 01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:47.640 Gothic can be understood as a historical subgenre, huh? 01:45:47.760 --> 01:45:51.760 That limited to a specific period from the end of 01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:55.760 approximately 64,764 from the castle of Otranto 01:45:55.760 --> 01:46:00.240 until 1820, with precisely the Errabundo mountain. 01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:02.480 And outside of that, huh? 01:46:02.480 --> 01:46:06.480 It is true that there is a current line that comes 01:46:06.480 --> 01:46:10.480 more from Anglo-Saxon studies that understand 01:46:10.480 --> 01:46:14.480 that Gothic transcends the genre, it is a mode 01:46:14.480 --> 01:46:18.480 that adapts to certain circumstances and 01:46:18.480 --> 01:46:22.480 sponsors works that arise when, when the 01:46:22.480 --> 01:46:25.480 narratives of the plot begin to flourish. 01:46:25.520 --> 01:46:29.240 So now we're in another era of Gothic, perhaps 01:46:29.240 --> 01:46:32.240 especially Gothic in Latin America, huh? 01:46:33.280 --> 01:46:38.000 From there, Mariana, Enrique, Mónica Ojeda or anything like that, eh? 01:46:38.800 --> 01:46:40.640 Could they 01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:42.720 So, what am I getting at? 01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:46.440 That depends on what people are obviously going to tell you. 01:46:46.880 --> 01:46:50.160 Maybe I do, but there are specialists in Italian Gothic architecture who do 01:46:50.160 --> 01:46:51.800 believe it has Gothic elements. 01:46:51.800 --> 01:46:53.920 Sure, huh? 01:46:53.920 --> 01:46:56.760 But that it was classified as gothic. 01:46:56.760 --> 01:46:59.600 I don't think so, but what gothic elements does it have? 01:46:59.600 --> 01:47:02.600 Yes, of course, they are, they are. 01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:04.160 I just wanted to make a point. 01:47:04.160 --> 01:47:07.400 Clearly, the Gothic novel is typically from the 19th century. 01:47:07.400 --> 01:47:10.200 He mentions, for example, the castle of Otranto. By Horace. 01:47:10.200 --> 01:47:11.360 Okay, okay. 01:47:11.360 --> 01:47:14.840 Evidently, Umberto Eco wrote the work in 80.980. 01:47:14.840 --> 01:47:18.840 It simply does not participate due to chronology, he told us precisely 01:47:18.840 --> 01:47:23.440 in that sense of recovering elements reminiscent of the classic Gothic novel. 01:47:23.440 --> 01:47:26.320 In that sense, perhaps it can be considered as such, not that it is a 01:47:26.320 --> 01:47:27.800 Gothic novel. 01:47:28.520 --> 01:47:32.520 Of course, of course, if the gothic novel, if in that part it was clear, 01:47:32.520 --> 01:47:36.240 in the recovery, in the recovery of the entire atmosphere, uh, the technique of 01:47:36.240 --> 01:47:38.120 suspense. 01:47:38.120 --> 01:47:42.120 But in the end, I think that if we base ourselves on the 01:47:42.120 --> 01:47:47.320 genres that best correspond to the structure of a detective novel, right? 01:47:47.360 --> 01:47:51.360 Why is the central theme, despite the fact that there may 01:47:51.360 --> 01:47:54.680 be terror or horror experienced by the different 01:47:54.680 --> 01:47:57.680 characters at certain moments, huh? Hmm. 01:47:57.840 --> 01:48:01.840 The fact that it's a cursed book, 01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:06.920 etc., well, that can be understood, right? 01:48:07.040 --> 01:48:11.040 The common thread is suspense, it is the identification 01:48:11.040 --> 01:48:15.040 of who has committed those murders which is 01:48:15.040 --> 01:48:19.000 accompanied by elements of terror and horror, 01:48:19.000 --> 01:48:22.000 depending on the moment in the novel. 01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:26.000 Well, yes, but that's also what I was telling you, 01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:29.560 that Gothic art isn't just limited to that 01:48:29.560 --> 01:48:32.560 circumstance or that medieval past. 01:48:32.600 --> 01:48:36.600 In fact, current Gothic is more linked to those 01:48:36.600 --> 01:48:40.600 current narratives of trauma that accompany us 01:48:40.600 --> 01:48:44.600 in our daily lives, that the medieval past has not 01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:48.600 completely disappeared and Bakhtin's chronomole 01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:52.440 has already been surpassed in that sense. 01:48:52.800 --> 01:48:56.800 But already at that time, in the 19th century 01:48:56.800 --> 01:49:00.800 itself, as I was saying, when they place, well, I 01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:04.800 don't know, with Cornelia, because Ah, well, 01:49:04.800 --> 01:49:08.720 well, not so much there, but eh, with texts that are written at that very 01:49:08.720 --> 01:49:10.680 moment. 01:49:10.680 --> 01:49:14.680 So no, it's not just the medieval 01:49:14.680 --> 01:49:18.080 past, but the reality is that 01:49:18.080 --> 01:49:21.080 of that historical moment. 01:49:22.040 --> 01:49:24.240 Thank you very much and congratulations to all three of you for your 01:49:24.240 --> 01:49:26.480 presentations, because they were extremely interesting. 01:49:26.480 --> 01:49:29.320 Greetings from Asturias. Likewise. 01:49:29.320 --> 01:49:30.560 Thank you so much. 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:33.440 Uh, I don't know if there are any more questions. 01:49:33.440 --> 01:49:36.520 Antonio, and we're closing. 01:49:37.120 --> 01:49:40.920 And well, we'll close the session, and thank you to 01:49:40.920 --> 01:49:43.920 Professor Miriam López López Santos. 01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:46.760 We were really looking forward to having people who would work in gothic music 01:49:46.760 --> 01:49:48.200 here. 01:49:48.320 --> 01:49:52.320 We have all read her book and I am very glad to know that it has been 01:49:52.320 --> 01:49:56.320 reissued, expanded and corrected precisely because although, well, 01:49:56.320 --> 01:49:59.920 Gothic literature in Spain has its own particularities, which 01:49:59.920 --> 01:50:02.920 she also described in her historical novel, right? 01:50:03.280 --> 01:50:07.280 They are contemporaneous in so many 01:50:07.280 --> 01:50:11.280 moments and there is that medieval 01:50:11.280 --> 01:50:15.280 space of castles, crypts, and 01:50:15.280 --> 01:50:18.880 hermitages, but with a different use. 01:50:18.880 --> 01:50:22.880 And those of us who study and have been studying 01:50:22.880 --> 01:50:26.880 that imagined Middle Ages are so interested 01:50:26.880 --> 01:50:30.880 in how two movements or two types of novels 01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:33.960 refer to the same time, the same 01:50:33.960 --> 01:50:36.960 space, but with such different uses. 01:50:36.960 --> 01:50:39.560 And how they are lost, recovered, and maintained. 01:50:39.560 --> 01:50:41.200 I think it's extremely interesting. 01:50:41.200 --> 01:50:45.200 I would tell Azucena that it would be 01:50:45.200 --> 01:50:49.200 very interesting to study Urraca, 01:50:49.200 --> 01:50:53.200 who has been one of the key characters 01:50:53.200 --> 01:50:56.360 in the novel and in contemporary 01:50:56.360 --> 01:50:59.360 historical fiction. 01:50:59.360 --> 01:51:02.560 Thinking about that one, Magpie 01:51:02.560 --> 01:51:05.560 of Lourdes, by Lourdes Ortiz. 01:51:05.560 --> 01:51:09.560 Perhaps it not only engages with history, but also with that 01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:13.600 nineteenth-century novel, and it would be very interesting to study. 01:51:13.600 --> 01:51:19.000 And I won't say anything more to Pablo because I already told him at the time. 01:51:19.000 --> 01:51:23.000 I am increasingly convinced that it would be 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:27.000 extremely interesting to draw bridges between 01:51:27.000 --> 01:51:31.600 that 19th-century millenarianism and all of esotericism. 01:51:31.600 --> 01:51:35.600 Nor did the New Age movement, which was also behind it and which 01:51:35.600 --> 01:51:39.600 inspired much of the rise of the contemporary novel at the end 01:51:39.600 --> 01:51:43.600 of the 20th century, greatly encourage him to begin that 01:51:43.600 --> 01:51:47.480 journey which I believe would be very, very productive. 01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:51.400 And with that, I think we can consider 01:51:51.400 --> 01:51:54.400 the discussion closed. 01:51:54.400 --> 01:51:59.720 I just sent Professor Clausen the invitation 01:52:00.400 --> 01:52:03.760 to the Times and 01:52:04.880 --> 01:52:08.880 Let's quickly change tables so Professor San Martín 01:52:08.880 --> 01:52:12.080 can present it, and we'll get started.